IronStylus, one of Riot's Senior Concept Artists, has been quite the busy bird lately! He has contributed over 50 replies to a forum thread entitled "@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read".
Continue reading for selection of the aforementioned replies, including Iron Stylus's thoughts about gender diversity as it relates to the champion roster, some overarching ideals Riot is grasping for, a little bit about the projects he's worked on, and so much more!
For starters, I'd like to warn you that this is a very long series of posts and replies. The thread doesn't come right out and spoil future content or mention concrete changes to anything, but it does ooze with the thoughts and ideas that fuel the some of the bright minds who shape League of Legends.
The well thought out, summoner created thread that started the whole thing was poised with the thesis " My argument is that female champions are treated differently, and that there is less diversity amongst the female cast members." and good ole IronStylus did a fantastic job at engaging the community in a relevant discussion, including about character interpretation, theme, and future creative plans. If you have time, I'd highly recommend you read through the entire post , even if you just skim through the Red Posts. Seeing as how I imagine you wouldn't have got this far if you DID have all that extra time, here is a recap including some of the more interesting or revealing posts ( rearranged a little so they flow better ) :
"From the ground up: Leona, Talon, Skarner, Xerath, Graves, Diana.
Concept/Production art: Sejuani, Ahri, Viktor, Volibear.
Skins: Midnight Ahri, Subterranean Nautilus, and a pile of others you haven't seen.
Currently working on 2 other champions in the pipeline and a few reworks.
The next champion you'll see that I worked on.. good god.. it's got me written all over it."
In his first reply of the thread, he speaks to his thoughts on the issue of diversifying the female form and comments that it is something his fellow employees, including the art director, are aware of.
"Funny thing is that a very nice young lady came and talked to me on the floor of the finals about this very same issue. She made similar points which I.. ya know.. agreed with, like I tend to on these subjects. That said, I don't think I can possibly address the entirely of this pose aside from stating what I've stated before. I believe we need to have breadth, depth and contrast in our characters. We need to have archetypal characters and non-conventional. This goes the same for body types, in this particular case, female body types.Sort of speaking to the same topic, he later gave a small run down of a few female champions who have worked and translated well
Recently I've been doing some core exploratory work on our champions, past and present. I've developed an even more concrete belief that we need to vary female forms as our game angle requires pretty drastic differentiation in proportions between characters, especially females, to make them truly read as different. Right now, on paper, many of our females read differently, but when plugged into game angle they read as very similar body types. Diana, though having a pretty curvy lower body (larger thighs) and trimmer upper body with smaller breasts still looks in the same general category as Syndra though she's pretty overall standard voluptuous. My bad there. I might have pushed proportions on Diana even further. In fact, I'd like to go back to Diana and push proportions. I think we've standardized our females far too much, producing mainly costume changes. I really want us to focus on stylizing our females as much as we do with our males.
Make no mistake, this is something we have our eye on. I had a discussion with our Art Director about this issue just the other day. We want that barbarian woman who can smash any guy she might encounter, we want us to get the spindly tank-girl type who's far less exposed, we want utilitarian, we want majestic, we want creepy, we want it all. We also do want sexy, in all it's variations. "
"Consensus wise, and these might be more archetypal, some designs we feel work when it comes to females (and this is going to be contrast-y because this is all dependent on context) are Miss Fortune, the new Katarina, Lux, the new Soraka, Ahri, Vayne, Leona, Riven, and a bunch of others. This means that these are widely agreed on as examples which are cohesive themes. Are some of them well covered? Yes. Are some of them busting out of their clothes? Yes. Are some in armor? Yes. Are some in elegant dress or next to nothing? Yes. Because this is all about context. If theme is cohesive, the character works.With all this talk of making things "sexy" and "attractive", IronStylus had this to say in response to concerns from summoners worried Riot may redesign an aesthetically displeasing champions in an effort to "force it" into being visually attractive.
There are a lot more successes, and indeed some failures that we agree on."
"There is no such effort to force ugly champions as we have decided and mentioned that we don't feel our traditionally "ugly" characters work on certain levels, but the past is the past. Our goal is to make the appropriate choices for a character driven by the goals that we establish early on, namely, again, what is best for the character in its context of theme, kit, etc. There is never an effort, nor an edict, nor an initiative to "de-uglify" or "up-uglify" our characters. They will be as "attractive", "sexy", "ugly", "monstrous", or whatever other subjective descriptors that exist as they need to be for their own unique cases."Interestingly enough, he also hosted a story time regarding a creating more variety by giving the example of himself taking a champion that is currently in development and shifting it from a male to a female character in order to help diversity the female roster.
"Never have I EVER heard at Riot that we are motivated by *** to sell content. Do I think we on occasion reduce the solution to our challenges via the easy route of stripping down a character? Yes. As I said, I want us to be more clever. We can always remove, we can't always add.
True story: There's a champion in the pipeline which I saw a prime example to make into a strong, non-sexualized, and heroic female because it was fertile ground. It was initially supposed to be a guy. So what did I do? I made it. When are you going to see it? Probably not until next year. In the meantime you will indeed see some "sexy" here and there. That's that whole variety thing, and maybe some cases (which might irk players who want a bit more skin coverage) are situations that I couldn't come in on my grand steed of prudence to say, "hey! cover up that boob window!", because I HATE undermining an artists' confidence in their ability or creativity. I am not the lone voice on what is appealing. I should never dictate my views unless I take substantial issue with the content being created."
"You also brought up something in there interesting about Varus. He is one of the only examples we have of a different take on males. We tend to make our males of sort of three types. Athletic, Heroic, or Hulk. So, Singed, Garen, and Mundo respectively. That generalization but there you have it. Varus hits a great sweet spot. He's quite androgynous, a bit more anime archetype. He's sleek, trim and mildly feminine, but dang is that ever sexy as far as I’m concerned! "
"We actually had a ridiculously heavy armored version of the Dark Rider Sejuani, it was epic. I however was working on other stuff when that was getting worked on and somehow we ended up stripping off tons of armor. I have no idea why.He brought her up again in another post, within the same thread, saying:
You can be harsh on the base Sejuani. I am! I've talked a whole lot about how I like it's concept but not it's context. Chick on giant pig in leather bikini? Cool, she must be from a wasteland where cow remnants are scant and ridable pigs prevelant. Chick on giant pig in leather bikini from the tundra? *record scratch* Yeah, I have a problem now. We did a cool concept and a cool character, but we needed to tie those together better and even push Sejuani's body type more barbaric. Hind-sight is 20/20 though. (Also I was pretty new then)
You'll never see heels on a female that I design, I cannot vouch for the rest of the team, though. There may be heels incoming, please don't hurt me!"
"Because in my opinion Sejuani looks genuinely out of place. If I can so easily go into her splash art and change a) the color of her horn, hair, pig, and flail b) put her in a desert and she can be right at home, we've fallen short.
Also, I'm actually completely with you in that I think it's silly that Tryn is from the frozen wastes and he's sans shirt. I think even that Ashe is wearing thigh-highs is a bit silly. But, I am in no way going to go back and nuke what has become iconic and cool.
Regardless of that practicality, they're iconic. I think Sejuani is what I spoke about before. An easy solution which could have been more clever."
"...We're going to go back into champions that need visual reworks to up fidelity but retain iconicism, but also to maintain or more heavily reinforce their theme. So, theoretically, if I were to rework Sivir I'd keep her that Wonder Woman/Xena style powerhouse that she is. I would keep her outfit minimal and I'd push her proportions more to make her as imposing and powerful as she should be."
"If we as content producers hope to keep producing content we must evolve and diversify. I will still maintain that we have a LOT of diversity in League of Legends. Could we have more? Absolutely. We're going to make plenty more champions, and we're going to push our limits. Yes, we may now and again float back to a place where things standardize for a while, but the hope is that even when we produce something archetypal is that it's fresh in it's own way and released in a cadence with possibly more experimental or unconventional characters.
We will be producing characters which push our silhouettes, not just costumes. We will be exploring characters that appeal to our female audience, we will visit the subject of diversity in shape, color, size, etc. My belief is that we do have a good handle on things. We have produced characters that last. We will take another look at characters we feel could use some updating. This will take time to work through the backlog an into release however, please be patient. This won't come in a torrent either, it will come in the form of hopefully a steady cadence which is refreshing each time. Will every character cater to everyone? No, nor should they. The job of our game is to create a world where everyone can identify with one or many characters, not a world where each character is appealing across the board. Some designs will enamor certain people, other designs might turn some people off. That's the nature of producing a rich world. Eliciting an emotion either way.
Any character content however is not produced to cater to a specific group. It is never the intention to appease or be reactionary. The motivation for any choice when developing a character is simply to do what's best for the character, to create a living fantasy which someone will latch onto. The creation of that fantasy alone dictates where we go from there. Luckily, fantasy comes in so many varied and wonderful forms. We are only limited to how much we may constrain ourselves.
We have so much to draw from and to create. A great start is always what comes from our community, what comes from threads like these. You should know that you do indeed have the power to shape what we release. We want to be clever just like you."
No Black Champ.
ReplyDeletemy life as i live ^
Deleteexcept if your really desperate, karma and draven can be black. and so can ryze cuz he went to RUNNNNE PRISON!
DeleteI am pretty sure Sion is black, he's a zombie but still.
DeleteHuman Ryze (the skin, no not tribal) is black. It's just a legacy. We don't have any native american champs either but really, who gives a fuck. I'm sooooooooo tired of people bitching and moaning about the objectification of fictional women.
DeleteMyrmidon Panth is pretty black also
DeleteKarma isnt black enough?
DeleteMordekaiser is black... Under his armor. Im sure of it.
DeleteVeigar is black.
DeleteVeigar under robe is black... yordle -_-
DeleteThe problem with "who cares about black" or "this is a game with mages and robots, this doesnt have to be real" is that Riot is creatig champions with regional themes. Karma, Ahri, Lee Sin, Kennen, Akali and even Wukong they are all asians. Fiora is french, Nidalee is maybe from India (considering her skin color). Viktor is Russian, Caitlyn is from UK.
DeleteSo, if you make are making champions all around the world, why are we even talking about black champions? Because there is no obvious african champion... and no, "it could be a racist stereotype" Kennen is not an insult to japan, same, an African champion could be maybe a chaman or voodoo mage without being and insult to africans.
Nidalee is african, just not african american.
DeleteYou want a stereotypically black champion? who's being racist then?
There are already 4 or 5 arguably dark skinned champions and Riot cant just make a champion black for the hell of it, it has to fit their background and character.(Btw, Volibear being a polar bear and all is black skinned :P)
Viktor is not russian... he's german...
DeleteAnd what about malzahar??? isn't he back enough????
Deletecant happen.. the black champ would always give first blood..
DeleteIt will come when Riot is ready for it. Making a champion black for the sake of making a black champion just results in a token black guy, someone with no depth of character that was just put in to make the game more politically correct. It's not an issue of offending people, it's an issue of actually making a great character people will enjoy and not a boring offering to the social justice warriors that play league.
DeleteNidalee is pretty much tradional African, Karma isn't black *per se* but she is darker complexion. I'm sure once Nidalee gets reworked she'll have darker skin.
DeleteFor the anon some comments above me, malzahar is middle eastern.
DeleteI aggre with mattias, adding a black character just to be politically corect is stupid(just as it is with any minority in any fantasy, sci-fi, tv show , or real life).
Also, thing is we have themed regions from which we can bring characters. If we want asianish characters, we go to Ionia. If we want the middle east, we pull something out of shurima. If we want nordic theme, we find something in the frozen tundra of freijlord. If we need jungle themed champs/ champs related to crystals or magic artefacts, we have kalamanda. But were would you pull a black champion from?
On a related note, how do you get a cowboy in a port filled with pirates(which is another theme)?
Funny guy, Nidalee is Indian not African or African American. After all she does wear a Bindi on her forehead which is worn by cultures in South and Southeast Asia.
DeleteTHATS RACIST!
DeleteNocturne is black too :l
DeleteSome things....
Delete- "s/he can't just be black". Yes they can. The majority of the human characters are white. How does their whiteness define them? Why does a black character have to be defined by their blackness?
- Nidalee's story is a nod to Tarzan. Is she read as African because she wears what appears to be "tribal" clothing? Most likely.
- Similarly Karma's ethnicity is vague at best. Her character is based on Asian religious concepts. But when you take a look at her skin one is Japanese and the other looks Aztec. So, you can make assumptions about what Karma is but there really is not a definitive answer.
- Malzahar looks like he's channeling Arabian nights. So he could very well be South Asian. His vizier and djinn skins certainly help affirm that reading of his character.
- Political correctness? What are you even talking about? Basically, political correctness means not being an asshole. I don't think it belongs in this conversation. This is a conversation about the lack of diversity in the League roster. Don't try to use "pc" as a way to derail people's valid complaints. It's a tired tactic.
Basically, I don't see there being any real issue in creating a black champion other than Riot just continues to opt out of adding diversity to their roster. If they want to continue to churn out characters as obnoxiously white as Jayce then that is their prerogative. So, until there is a time where the cast is diverse there will be people discussing and demanding diversity.
''obnoxiously white''. since when is skin colour TONE a good or bad thing?
DeleteWe need a badass black champ with a giant battlehammer
Deleteis it possible if riot were to make a gay champ .. gay as in lgbt ... and im not talking abt taric or ez .. i just want a gay champ ..
DeleteI thought Nidalee is based off of native South Americans.
Delete@anon How would you specify he's gay in a game like this? ''as he found his village massacred by noxians, he went back to his house to see if he could find any clue regarding his boyfriend''!!?? or something?
DeleteI thought the same thing, and then I bought (and had a close look at) Malzahar. They should definitely do something about the lack of racial diversity though.
DeleteLook at the skin sale. Karma's skin on sale is definitely of a black female. Why is this even a point of discussion?
Delete^^ Because of ignorant comments like yours. ^^
DeleteThis entire thread is the reason why Riot won't make a "black champ". There's too many issues revolving around it.
DeleteHere is the thing: Think of a "White" champ, and then make him "Black". Does it change anything about him at all? Nope. Darius could be dark skinned and wouldn't make him any less of a badass. Whether or not it is "acceptable" is entirely up to the gamer, and if they have an issue then it is a personal issue they need to work out.
DeleteExactly Biscuit. No one ever has to explain why a character is white but boy do they have to justify it if s/he is a person of color. It makes absolutely no sense.
Delete...and I hope it stays that way. This game is great now and the last thing to ever cross my mind is that it "needs" the addition of a black champion. Let's keep the game the way it currently is, shall we?
DeleteSeriously people. Just because a champion "might be" black, doesn't change the fact that they are a good/bad champion. (though personally i don't think there are any bad champions) It doesn't matter about the skin color! God this makes me think of the saying "History repeats itself."
DeleteThere is no need for black champs.
DeleteYou can't make Darius black, heavy armors are not historically African.
Delete+ people would complain "omg they made the black champ a brute" or "omg they made him so unmanly".
People will always complain. Anyway, i am not playing a champ because of his skin color, but because of his background or gameplay.
Why does anyone care even care, just have fun.
DeleteINB4 Black Xerath
uhhhhhhhh Nasus.
DeleteOlaf is black
DeleteMORDEKAISER is number 1
ReplyDeleteHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
brand is black and so is aphromoo
ReplyDeleteaphromoo so iconic he should have his own champ
Deleteor at least a draven skin
DeleteAphromoo #1 support champion. Easier to play than Sona.
DeleteSona's not that easy to play properly. The only way to play support Sona is by not being passive, which I see too often.
Deleteplease more female characters...
ReplyDeletefat females
Sexy females
Monster females
Animal females!!!!
i am a girl.. and i only have female champions.... :-))
i dnt want to play male champs even though they are awesome...
B>Lady Gragas
DeleteAny of the above except animal girls. Keep the furry away please nidalee is enough
DeleteI dont know why but i too wanna more femeles, im sad about monster/animal fameles. Because if we had Rengar, Skarner,Cho, itp. males we can too have more girls like Zyra, Anivia, Lulu, Nidalee(she is werecoguar:) Soraka and more else. Who sad only with people can be funn?? LoL is fantasy game!!! They can do too anmal/monster girl which will be sexy how they show on Ahri. The good idea will b if Ezreal Hydra champ too will be female, and that will be awasome... Let's do this IronStylus!!!
Deleteone isn't pushing it
Deleteactually male yordles sort of are like furries
TBH I'm waiting for the void-based female. I can only imagine her being fucking terrifying, like some kind of 'queen of the bug ppls'.
DeleteMommy Cho'Gath :O
+1
DeleteInb4Kerrigan.
Delete+2
Delete+3
Delete+4
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Delete+6
Delete+7
Delete+8
Delete+9
Delete+10
Delete+11
DeleteC-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteBut seriously, female Voidling (like a Cho, Kha, Kog type creature) would be pretty cool.
I would genuinely like to see a male champion or a skin as sexualized as Eve, Le Blanc, Battle Bunny Riven, etc. Not being a smartass here. That would actually be bonus for me. Bondage Varus, Bunny Ezzie, and Speedo Jayce, I could go for ages.
ReplyDeleteOh dear god speedo jayce, i want to se that so bad now! And a Bunny Ezreal would only fit him so cute :) /Etrisa
DeleteI think someone confuse gayness with sexualize, isn't Varus sexualized enough he's basically naked for gods sake
DeletePlease do not mix the word gay into this. Alright sure a speedo Jayce would maybe be over the top But bunny Ezreal, that's a theme i could see. Not only for the humor but also for some Eyecandy for all of us :)
DeleteA companion male bunny skin of some kind would just be appropriate anyway. Bunny Jarvan with the giant carrot lance?
DeleteOn that note, while not the "sexy" bunny people are obviously after, I AM surprised there is no bunny Nunu by this point. Like bunny Teemo it just...fits.
Funny how sexualised men are always seen as 'gay'...
DeleteI think Speedo Jayce would fit perfectly with his character XD
Taric and Ezreal are gay enough for the whole game...
Deleteno bondage plz? kkthxbai
Deletebut as for the other two...yeah, speedo Jayce is required XD
Bunny Ezreal would be like cottontail Teemo tbh, except unlike Teemo, he'd just look bitter about the whole thing lol
Side note, Bunny Riven I don't find sexy at all for some reason. It just seems to fit more or so since she's always hopping around with that Q
Its a game not a freakin pornsite ._.'
Delete(Bunny suit gragas ftw)
I think the devs suggested that taric is in fact gay.
DeleteAlso, Garen has jokes with a reference to underwear commercial, remember?
Also, for the whole thread, find me an example where the male skin wouldnt look silly and i'll agree(no underwear and bunny suits). Also, we have ziggs in a swimsuit, while no female champ in one.
thats quite a valid point you got there. this is a serious game so the point is not to show so much skin as possible^^
DeleteSexualized male champ? I think you're forgetting bout VANDAL VLADIMIR.
DeleteTainted Love.
Hell yeah, they're the epitome of sexy.
Deletei have no idea what she looks like to them. To me she just looks like a magician's assistant girl. There is also the fact that her concept was requested by the longest thread in lol history.
DeleteAlso, eve is a succubus. If you want the male version of that(sorta), get a Popobawa in the game.
I think Jayce would go to the beach in white long bathing trunks with red and pink roses on them. He would have cool sunglasses and hang at the bar with rammus. And he would order a blue drink with a citrus taste. He would look totaly super sexy. But that's just me daydreaming :)
DeleteSecret angent missfortune would show up next to him, order the same drink chat for a bit and give him a secret "007" misson to kill the nexus!
Since when did simply dressing a certain way equal porn site? I'm pretty sure you actually have to have sex for it to qualify as porn. I think it funny that people are acting as if they have no idea how people in fantasy dress. That, or someones a super troll. Either way gto.
DeleteSuper secret objective, play to win.
DeleteI pity you Anon 12:06.
DeleteHuh, you must be asexual.
DeleteSuccubus actually have a direct male equivalent called an incubus and as long as he's every bit as sexual as Eve I'm fine with that.
Johan, as long as he strips off his clothes and reveals a speedo after reaching a certain level I'm fine with that.
Sweetie, it was sarcasm. The cool thing about fantasy character is that they're FANTASY characters and you can design them any way you fucking like.
Yes, because you can never enjoy eye candy champs and play to win at the same time. That's why none of the straight men playing this game are any good at playing this game.
actually there is a small chance i might be, so thanks?
DeleteIncubus it is then, but it would be like making a female tryndamere. Interesting, but boring.
Also, isnt it a little(tiny) bit insulting for men what your saying? ''you dont see t&a everywhere, therefor you arent straight''
DeleteMale eye candy? How about RUTHLESS PANTHEON and his thong of manliness?
DeleteHe mentioned something in that thread about a future champion named Eoin..I'd like to hear more about this one soon.
ReplyDeleteI actually think he said that the ARTIST working on the new champion was called Eoin... I might be wrong, though :/
DeleteI so want to lay my hands on a half nude firefighter TF or graves... mmm dem nude males :) /Etrisa
ReplyDeleteI want me some battle bunny taric, damn it!
DeleteBattle bunny taric would be awesome! :D
Deletebattlebunny should be the new battlecast, commando and pentakill sets
Deletejust think about it we already have riven
so why not taric, jarvan and two more (maybe one more girl so that it would be sort of equal)
battlebunny cho'gath...you know you want it ;)
DeleteAlso, TF wouldn't fit the firefighter thing thematically. Graves maybe, but not completely nude! Like, shirtless or something I guess, but buck naked?
...pun unintended... >.>
Wasnt there an old thing about firefighter trynda, as a response to a female request?
DeleteI demand they rework the Dark Rider Sejuani skin. A full armor dark rider sounds way more aswm then a bikini dark rider.
ReplyDeletei want sun tan taric, taric only wearing a towel.
ReplyDeleteis this dream of me met? no.. still not met ;_;
The fatties just want champs they can cosplay as and not take too much heat.
ReplyDeleteYou're very narrow minded. I myself is female and I have to admit, a curvier or even volumptous woman champ would be a nice addition. Tbh most men don't find very skinny women attractive. I don't even know why sejuani has bikini armour shes from the tundra ffs >.>
DeleteSejuani has bikiny because only natives can wear them in blizzard without any problems.
DeleteI come from a place where its always snowy and cold
DeleteI go to a place where its pleasent and warm?
Do I wear
A. Something furry to keep me warm?
B. Something heavily armoured and warm?
C. Something light and cool?
It makes more sense for snowbound characters to wear less armour because they aren't used to the heat than it does desert characters who will find the average temperature to be cold for them.
Yeah I think it's just accepted that if you live in the artic, you wear as little as possible. Your just that badass. Well, cept Ashe. She's got some clothes on, but Tryndamere makes up for her ;)
DeleteWhy does nobody read the lore? Are there any frejord champs who where alot of clothes male or female????
DeleteLol who are these men that don't like skinny women? I don't know any...
DeleteI don't.
DeleteRework nidalee :(
ReplyDeleteJust remodel , but i think she is still so pretty buetty ^-^
Deletei want a naked man
ReplyDeleteThe short answer is "No, we won't stop."
ReplyDeleteWALL OF TEXT
ReplyDeletedont read
tl;dr
ReplyDeleteNot enough sexualized male champs? Have you seen Jarvan's chest and abs? Bajeezus.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between overtly-sexualized female bodies and idealized male bodies. Please make that distinction before you waste a comment.
Deleteyes plz Jarven's bare chest O.O <3
DeleteYeah the difference is people will bitch to hell about the women being attractive and sexualized but call it something else and not give a shit when it's done to males. Hypocrites will be hypocrites after all.
DeleteNo the difference is that men's bodies aren't sexualized and used against them like women's bodies are. Take your basic understanding of the world and go elsewhere. Thank you.
DeleteWow, someone is being a know-it-all. "You're ignorant and I'm smart. That's all." He's giving his opinion on what he's seeing. Same with you. These aren't facts unless you give us some true examples to present it as such. Learn to make a valid argument instead of just calling someone ignorant because you say so. Thank you.
DeleteI am not here to educate you! As a marginalized individual (a woman of color) I am allowed to express my outrage any way that I choose. You cannot tell me otherwise. Use the resource at your finger tips also known as the internet. Go educate yourself. I am not done being salty. ;)
DeleteOh well then as a (mostly) white male, I am not allowed to have a different opinion than yours. No one is using women's bodies against them. I could make the same argument that those atrocious Twilight movies used Taylor Lautners body to sell the movies. But I wouldn't. Because people chose to go see it, and no one forced them too. Likewise, no one is forcing you to play this game, or pick "sexed up" characters. You don't like it? Pick a different champion. Or better yet, play another game. You are making an issue out of something that simply isn't an issue. As for myself? I will play whatever champion I enjoy playing as, and fits my play style. I don't care if they're male or female or sexy or ugly. If I like the way they look, that's simply a bonus.
DeleteOh no, a woman of color. You people need to stop using your gender and races as if they justify anything you say just because there was oppression in the past(as well as the present in some countries). FYI every race and gender as been oppressed at some point in the past you're not special by any means. Hell, odds are you've never actually experienced the real oppression for your gender or your race. The reason none of you feminazis or w/e you aren't taken seriously is because you try to make a point based solely on your birth traits. It's childish and sickening. As for Anonymous October 9, 2012 12:32 PM, just because you repeat I tired and baseless claim does not make it true. Men's bodies are sexualized in almost every form of media (final fantasy, twilight, anime, comic books, movies, ect). Why? Because people enjoy playing as/watching/reading about attractive people. There are enough "normal" people in boring ol' real life. Like I said before nobody cares if a man is sexualized. Reminds me when all the women came out of the woodwork to bash on soulcalibur's character creation because women can be created to be almost completely naked, while at the very same time neglecting at the same thing can be done to males. How has Ahri (or any sexy fictional female) being sexy been used against any woman??? Anywhere in the world? Provide proof and evidence or stfu. To even imply that men have never had a hard time because they don't stack up to the ideal image of what man should be is also bullshit. Men take the same flack if not more for not being attractive (to the status quo) than women do. Any gamer can vouch with me for this.
DeleteThe white men come out of the woodwork and are offended. I love how the above responses are so riddled with inaccuracies and ignorance that they are their own counterarguments.
DeleteRemember folks it's all good discussion until you offend yt.
And yet another intellectual who just makes assumptions they can't possible back up. Anyone who resorts to you race or gender as some sort of foundation for an argument has nothing to bring to the table. I also find it amusing how you just claim someone is white male based on absolutely nothing. Much like your arguments and talking points. And no, hurling baseless assumptions and trying to ruin things for everyone else is where this stops being a good discussion.
DeleteAnd you should do well to remember what I said previously, "just because you repeat I tired and baseless claim does not make it true." So, let's hear the inaccuracies that we have made. Show me where there's ignorance. Or hell, answer the damn questions presented. Perhaps that would be a more appropriate way to continue a discussion rather than being vague and using buzz words.
"First, representations of both women and men have indeed become more sexualized over time; and, second, women continue to be more frequently sexualized than men." -- Media's Growing Sexualization of Women, "Psych Central News"
DeleteMen and women are both sexualized! More often women than men.
"Women and girls are more likely than men and boys to be objectified and sexualized in a variety of media outlets;" -- The Sexualization of Women and Girls, Psychology Today.
Men and women are both sexualized! More often women than men.
"Virtually every media form studied provides ample evidence of the sexualization of women, including television, music videos, music lyrics, movies, magazines, sports media, video games, the Internet and advertising (e.g., Gow, 1996; Grauerholz & King, 1997; Krassas, Blauwkamp,& Wesselink, 2001, 2003; Lin, 1997; Plous & Neptune, 1997; Vincent, 1989; Ward, 1995). Some studies have examined forms of media that are especially popular with children and adolescents, such as video games and teen-focused magazines.
In study after study, findings have indicated that women more often than men are portrayed in a sexual manner (e.g., dressed in revealing clothing, with bodily postures or facial expressions that imply sexual readiness) and are objectified (e.g., used as a decorative object, or as body parts rather than a whole person). In addition, a narrow (and unrealistic) standard of physical beauty is heavily emphasized. These are the models of femininity presented for young girls to study and emulate." -- Report on the APA Taskforce on the Sexualization of Girls, APA.org
Men and women are both sexualized! More often women than men. Oh hey and video games are mentioned!
The point here being that all the research shares a common thread. Both men and women are sexualized and this is harmful for both men and women. However, women (including young and adolescent girls) are more commonly objectified and judged based on outrageous standards of beauty. This of course does not means that there is malicious intent on the part of the Riot artists/character designers because we have all internalized these images and we all uphold these images as our ideal. All of this informs character design and results in a roster of scantily clad sexy lady warriors.
I do think that a casual search of the topic of "under-representation of minorities in media" (if you're curious about race) and the sexualization of women would've reaped plenty of results.
With all due respect all of these studies are spearheaded by psychologists. And to be fair psychology is not regarded as a legitimate science and is dubbed "soft science". I personalty went ahead and read all three articles (as well as the sources for said articles) and none of them give a detailed result to the effects of sexualization in the media. Nor do they back up the idea that men are not sexualized in the media just as much as women (unless the also want to pretend "idolization" is not sexualization). Furthermore the articles talk about the negative results of women emulating women in the media who possess unrealistic traits. But what's the problem with that. Last I checked this is a free country and women are free to decide for themselves how they act or dress. And it is not anyone but the women themselves who should have the final say or decide what is right or wrong for them (within the confines of the law of course). Who are the women emulating video game or comic book women anyway? I can see women emulating celebrities, but men all do that too. I'll tackle the meat of these articles later on.
DeleteTake otaku culture for example. Lolicon is an extremely popular fetish in said culture, however no otaku is picking up or molesting real children because human beings with common sense and some sanity can dictate the difference between fantasy and reality. If someone can't tell the difference the you can't blame the media for the individual being insane already. It's like saying GTA and fighting games cause gamers to run around killing people. You want to see a culture with no sexualization (of women) as we know it? Look at middle east and view the result.
Sexualization is completely based on opinion and societal influences anyway. What one person finds attractive isn't necessarily the same for another. No matter what, people will be sexualized in the media. Nobody is arguing that point. The artcle from "Report on the APA Taskforce on the Sexualization of Girls, APA.org" states the obvious; women are sexualized in the media. However, it incorrectly claims that men are less sexualized, but then again the article also incorrectly defines sexualization. According to their definition of sexualization none, and I mean NONE, of the LoL champions fit their definition of sexualization. The article defines sexualiztion as...(contin)
1: "a person’s value comes only from his or her sexual appeal or behavior, to the exclusion of other characteristics;" Ahri is incredibly sexy, attractive and essentially a succubus. Is that her only value? Of course not she is a powerful AP carry who is valued because she is powerful and useful to the team with her sexiness only being a bonus. Then you look at Syndra also quite hot but nobody cares because a champion's value comes from their kit and Syndra's kit is flawed but thankfully being buffed. 2:"a person is held to a standard that equates physical attractiveness (narrowly defined) with being sexy; ". In short sexiness is based on societies general opinion for what is sexy. Who knew? Is Zilean sexy? No because he's not attractive. Some would say Diana isn't attractive or sexy and I would disagree vehemently. Going against this rule of thumb is like saying the Hunchback of Nostradame can be sexy despite not being attractive. That's like saying women (generally) find nerds to be sexy. It's asinine. 3: "a person is sexually objectified — that is, made into a thing for others’ sexual use, rather than seen as a person with the capacity for independent action and decision making; and/or". Once again not single champion in LoL is made specifically for anyone's sexual use. They do not possess independent action or decision making because they are FICTIONAL characters who decisions are made by their creators. 4:"sexuality is inappropriately imposed upon a person." Unless one of the champs in LoL are slaves in their lore who are forced to dress sexually then they do not fit under this category either. Because as far as we are concerned everyone dresses the way they want. The dictionary defines sexualization as, such http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexualization. Under this definition, any attractive character can be, and would rightly so fit this definition. The consequences listed for sexualization in the article are at best unfounded and at worst spun intently to make the viewer gain a specific idea.
Delete"The Sexualization of Women and Girls, Psychology Today." Was written by a marriage therapist. "Media's Growing Sexualization of Women, "Psych Central News" was written by healthcare doctor. Where are their qualifications to say whether or not the media sexualizes women more than men and if it has any effect on anyone apart from people being able to exercises their freedom of choice or making others feel insecure? Which will happen to most people anyway because there will always be someone who regarded as more attractive or some standard that a group will generally find attractive or different.
As for objectification of women based on the media or fiction; I don't think there is a man here who thinks any less of real women because they may wish more women could look more like Akali. I, for one wish that I could look like Talon(I'm sure a lot of women would prefer that as well) but does that make me go into chronic depression? No.
And everyone know that minorities are under-represented in the media. Again, (coming from a minority) what's the harm? A few people's feelings are hurt. If you want a form of media w/o sexualization or brimming with minorities then create something yourself but don't run around wagging your finger at creators, making trivial problems bigger than they are or making up problems despite real evidence to the contrary (ex. self objectication causes women to make worse grades despite women on average make better grades than men even with ALL the sexualization in the media).
Sorry for the wall text and double post. And if anyone responds please respond to the points that were already made as I have done and we can have a discussion. If not, then there is no point to continue. TY.
You: With all due respect all of these studies are spearheaded by psychologists. And to be fair psychology is not regarded as a legitimate science and is dubbed "soft science".
DeleteMe: GOOD LORD LOL
You: Furthermore the articles talk about the negative results of women emulating women in the media who possess unrealistic traits. But what's the problem with that. Last I checked this is a free country and women are free to decide for themselves how they act or dress. And it is not anyone but the women themselves who should have the final say or decide what is right or wrong for them (within the confines of the law of course). Who are the women emulating video game or comic book women anyway? I can see women emulating celebrities, but men all do that too. I'll tackle the meat of these articles later on.
Me: L M A O
You: You want to see a culture with no sexualization (of women) as we know it? Look at middle east and view the result.
Me: OMGOMGOMGOMGBREATHELOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
You: women are sexualized in the media. However, it incorrectly claims that men are less sexualized, but then again the article also incorrectly defines sexualization.
Me: I'm crying. I'm fucking crying LOLOLOLOL
You: And everyone know that minorities are under-represented in the media. Again, (coming from a minority) what's the harm? A few people's feelings are hurt. If you want a form of media w/o sexualization or brimming with minorities then create something yourself but don't run around wagging your finger at creators, making trivial problems bigger than they are or making up problems despite real evidence to the contrary (ex. self objectication causes women to make worse grades despite women on average make better grades than men even with ALL the sexualization in the media).
Me: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Oh boy.
In conclusion no disrespect but LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
So in short no real response. No real criticism to my arguments. Just lol. A fantastic representation of whatever it is you are standing for.
Delete@Anonymous So either you don't know how to comprehend what he is trying to say or are so butt hurt that you can't give an honest response. Your post is idiotic and I feel stupider for having read it.
DeleteHave you read it? He discredited the sources used and by extension psychology and sociology as valid fields of study, but at no point did he bring any "evidence" of his own to the table just a bunch of unsubstantiated drivel. At one point he made a baffling generalization about Middle Eastern cultures. He trivialized the thoughts and feelings of marginalized individuals and qualified by saying "I'm a minority". This is only the tip of that infidelity flawed two part shit bomb. No one has to respond to that hot mess. Also, your response is teeming with ableist language and so it's worth less than nothing to me.
DeleteAll I said is that we can't take psychology to be absolutely true because it does not fit the qualifications of true science. This is a fact within the scientific community. You don't buy that video games cause people to emulate the actions of the video games and kill people do you? Because that was a big psychology talking point for awhile. I questioned the validity of individuals making opinions about subjects outside their area of expertise and field of study. I questioned the evidence that was brought to me. Is that wrong of me to do?
DeleteDo Middle Eastern countries permit the sort of sexualization you see in LoL? No they do not. There is no generalization here unless somewhere in the Middle East it has become okay for women to wear what they want and make their own decisions and I just have no idea on the matter.
People's feelings getting hurt is a trivial matter. I don't run around throwing my race around like it's some sort of ace card to get shit changed just because it "offends" me. There bigger issues for minorities in the world than "there aren't more black people on TV and in video games".
Once again all you're doing is ignoring my criticisms and WHY they were made by calling it drivel and trying to substantiate your point by making appeals to authority. I didn't say all psychology is wrong either. I did however say to look at the source material and the qualifications which you also magnificently dodged as well. The very fact you responded to the a serious argument with "LOL" shows your immaturity.
I did in fact read his and then I read yours. You sound like a middle school student who just lost an argument. "Lol don't care" is not a legitimate response to any discussion. You just laughed instead of disproved anything and then proceed to bash me for agreeing when all you did was absolutely nothing. You bent over and took it. If you were to attempt that in an actual discussion you would be booted from the room almost immediately. Middle Eastern cultures as a whole tend to be conservative to the point of stupidity. Perhaps not EVERY Middle Eastern culture is that way but the majority is.
DeleteNow in response to the psychology of the matter. Yes it is a as a valid field of study. It is real it can work, HOWEVER psychology is also used as a common credit for bullshit studies that are as much drivel as "Lol don't care". It is benefit to no one when that is the only response you can bring to the table.
I thought kennen and poppy covered those unsexy parts of league
ReplyDeletedude i can't get that image out of my head. She's just..... so hot... omg
DeleteThey added cleavage to the new Rocketeer Tristana art. GG, yordle cloppers (I know, but its the closest I can come up with)
DeleteI can't believe you had me pull up the splash art for that. You call those boobs? Trying google-searching "Tristana lol" with safesearch off.
DeleteNo, no thank you... not again ;D heheh
DeleteTake a lick of that lollipoppy ;D
DeleteHe makes a good point. Would women get mad if all the female champs were ugly as all hell and looked like urgots mom? Yes. Would women get mad if all female champs had DD and minni skirts with their butts hanging out? Yes. As of now i think league is doing a good job with mixing up champs male and female. Personaly i rather see atractive women and not a bunch of Gragag's sisters running around. And even in full armour leona is still atractive and so are many others. But after all i dont play MF because i wana see them pixleized boobies, i play her becuase she is a good and fun champ and thats all it should be.
ReplyDeleteright you are Anon :)
DeleteI agree lol. I don't play Irelia/Nid/Sona/Ashe cus they're sexy, I play them because:
DeleteA) Fed Irelia is an unstoppable monster
B) You don't play Nid for fun, you play her so they don't have fun
C) Dem pixelized boobs, too guud
D) You will never, ever, escape.
I disagree with the idea that women would get mad if there were ugly female characters. I need the flesh eating dutchess from American McGee Alice! We need that prehistoric woman with few teeth, awful hair and a huge bat that grabs men by the balls and drags them to the cave! I would be the first in line to buy an ugly crazy post apocalyptic bitch with few hairs on her head, but lots of scabs and moles who runs like Trundle and slurps her spit like Mundo carying a chainsaw or something.
Deletesaying women would get mad if there were ugly female champions is hilariously shortsighted and misogynistic.
Deletepersonally, I refuse to buy champions and/or skins that are ridiculously, obnoxiously revealing. I want my fantasy women badass.
This was my post ( the orig one) wasnt logged in :/ and read all what i said no just parts. I said i think the league is doing well atm (but you can always improve) yes there should be more leona bad ass but LOL is not near as bad as some Japan games......just take a look at them if you have not, league is fine and riot is doing ok for themselfs.
DeleteI play Orianna. DOES ORIANNA COUNT AS SEXY?!?!
Delete... I just realized I only play female champions. Weird.
I have always hoped for an elderly, tribal "black magic woman" with voodoo stick and utility spells, mix between support and ap carry. Curses, poisons and hallucination. Yes, that would be awesome.
ReplyDeleteNidalee:
DeleteIs she black and tribal? Check
Is her magic black, almost voodoo like? Check
Is she support/ap? Check
Does she curse, poison, and hallucinate? No, she already has 7 moves.
Is she a woman? No
but yeah, that would be cool. Like, maybe she can make a 'hallucinated' copy of one of your allies? Like LB copy? Or maybe make the enemy's hit by her hallucination spell see fake champs walking around? *shrugs*
or maybe hallucinate the attacks your allies do? o.o
I think hallucination would be a cool theme to base a champ off of, kinda like support LB.
Go play Diablo 3. You can have your very own personalized black magic woman.
Deletegiven the freedom they have in champion design (given that they've invested a good amount of time and effort into creating their own intellectual property) I'd like to see a take on dark-skinned people that doesn't support real-world (not to mention boring and played-out) racial stereotypes.
DeleteI am usually always for the idea to "fade out" the borders in gender/sex/race frames the champions are put in. I also like champions that are hidious but own asses, like Urgot, for example. This can be done, not only by skins and champion models, but also by their body language, voices, punch lines and other expressive categories. I personally need a homosexual, vain, diva with a lot of sarcasm in their personality. I think Riot should experiment with pushing bounderies.
ReplyDeleteWhat they did with Syndra, for example, is just sad. She has apsolutely NO personality. She's that SM girl with a lot of vanity and wish for dominance, but why does she levitate like a 56 year old virgin? Why is she so flat-lined in everything?
I think what you're after Leksilijum is Bruce from Krod Mandoon, here, take a peek. (This is the first time he says a great deal, a couple lines in the first episode, and a couple lines a little earlier in the episode, but this is where you start to glimpse how... shall we say FLAMING and feminine he is XD)
Delete(Mind you, he will put ezreal/taric to SHAME)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E75WsaxasZE&feature=relmfu
~6:15-7:40
You made my day!
DeleteFor me is the sexiest thing in this game is Katarina: nice curves, almost full clothing but exposed belly. Sorry I like it. ;)
ReplyDeleteOops 2x ,,is,, .. nvm
DeleteChip N Dale Graves please.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the poster that said that the black champion would always give first blood made my day.
MANKIKI DRAVEN!
ReplyDeleteI love sexy female.
ReplyDeletePlease don't stop making them.
More Skins for Nautilus!
ReplyDeleteThose wanting sexy male skins:
ReplyDelete... Male Stripper Draven? Would fit his personality.
THE CLUB OF DRAVEN!
Deletewait wat
Conan Sion is a sexz male skin
ReplyDelete!
Kha'zix should have been a female, I actually expected him to be when I saw him
ReplyDeleteI think Riot is doing a good job on the variety of champs. U know, female are curvy and all since the begining of time; i mean for the waist to give birth and the breast to feed childrens.. Personnaly, making a fat guy that drinks a lot and party all time is fun, idk why, but if we putted tha same concept on a women it wouldnt attract the male gender much and the female gender neither since they have annie for the dark gentle looking girl, or the justice bringer of Kayle or even the vengeful Syndra. There is every emotion and feeling to fill in players heart.. in overall nobody would play such a character unless it is effin stronk.
ReplyDeleteMost of the women on here are asking for way too much. "stripper" "bondage" "chip n dale's" This is definitely going over board with the whole over-sexualization of champs and going into a fucking porno. Most of the ideas on here could just never be done. They only real idea that could possibly work is maybe the speedo jayce, but he could easily be like lifeguard jayce or something, you guys need to break out of your boxes and think of how people could take these ideas the wrong way and i'm sure the devs have more so than you. You don't see me going around asking for stripper mf . This whole thing has just blown out of proportion, the , females are females, they have boobs, it is kind of hard to avoid "over-sexualizing" them without just slapping armor on them. Males are males, they can't be flaunting around their entire body just for the hell of it either, but you could add maybe a theme to them and release a "sexy" skin for a male, such as the lifeguard jayce suggestion.
ReplyDeleteYou already have a wide range of Stripper Miss Fortune skins to choose from - you want cowgirl-themed, pirate-themed, or mafia-themed? Not to mention Playboy bunny Riven.
DeleteThey should make The Village People set of skins.
ReplyDeleteDraven: The Chief (complete with headdress)
Graves: The Cop
Mundo: The Construction Worker
Garen: The Commando
Jarvan: The Cowboy
Darius: The Motorcycle Rider
pretty much all male human champs have perfect bodies aswell
ReplyDeleteBut none of them are sporting massive crotch bulges and striking 'look at my pecs' poses...
DeleteWe want massive bulges! :(
Deleteyes yes, and no shirts! mwahaha~ more champs like Varus please. i love androgyny.
Deletenow that they've finished Pentakill, they should do a five-man skin set based on the Village People.
ReplyDeleteracism, sexualism, gender differences... its a game... please, let it go and have fun
ReplyDeletePeople who point out problematic aspects of things they love aren't fun sponges. They are people like you who enjoy the game and want to have fun, AND in having that fun are confronted with the problematic aspects like lack of diversity in the female characters. Unlike you they feel strongly enough to take the time to discuss these issues. So, if this doesn't bother you then that is awesome! Good for you! However, don't post comments like this it is eye-roll inducing at best and ignorant as hell at worst.
DeleteGood point Anonymous 12:40!
DeleteThere are people who value divercity and we enjoy seeing something different because it gets boring once they start making more Syndras.
part of it is that people's attitudes about RL issues like racism and gender differences and so on bleed into everything you do in life. there is literally no point when you're dealing with any product of artifice that you're 'free' from these issues.
Deleteso yeah, it's a game, but that doesn't mean some aspects can't be off-putting or offensive (Riot's done a good job, in all fairness, which is why I've stuck around).
Why isn't anyone commenting about Brolaf D:
ReplyDeleteIf it ain't broke don't fix. If these supposed gaps in diversity were so terrible people would go elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteThey haven't.
It's broke and that's why we're talkin' about it.
Delete^
Deletealso, that's a logical fallacy. for one, you don't know that people aren't going elsewhere already; for two, you can't say, all things being equal between the games (e.g., you were able to get a refund on all expenses, the games played the same with equal levels of entertainment, there were no balancing issues, etc.), that people wouldn't go from Original League to Diverse League, should such a thing exist.
I, for one, have stopped buying skins and new champions that are overly sexualized. I don't mind a champion being a little sexy (See: Fiora) but sensibly so. Syndra was just another carbon copy overly sexualized champion in the long list of female champions that are all boobs, ass and no personality or character beyond that. When we can get more female champions like Leona and Diana and stop getting champions like Syndra, this game will be a LOT better and feel open and accepting to a lot more people. This game suffers from the Chainmail Bikini syndrome way too often for me to feel comfortable inviting my friends to play it. Women are a lot more than just T&A, and we should be treated better than this.
DeleteI am a girl, and I play only female characters (main: Ashe, Lux, Karma, Sona, Ahri and Shyvanna) Why? I don't know, I just don't find attractive male champions... Maybe - as it is said on forum - Varus attracts me a little bit, but... I will wait for SEXY HANDSOME AND YOUNG male character - who looks like Ian Somerhand or Alexander Skarsgard (or just younger versions of Christian Bale and Brad Pitt). Also, I play female characters because they seem to me more... surprising with their abilities. (I'm in love with Lux's ulti and Karma's OP shield)
ReplyDeleteSometimes I feel bad, that my friends (boys) who play LoL, discuss a lot about new female's skin... 'Look at her boobs, she is so ideal'. Is it okay for boys to fap to LoL's female champions? :c Do they compare me with cartoon girls?
+ have u ever read comments under LoL's cosplay? When a girl, who isn't fat (just maybe not flat belly) dresses like a female champion (obviously she is anorexian in game) there is huge flame - 'WHO FED NIDALEE' or something like that... It's sad, but I know, most players are like 14-17 and they dream of models, not real women.
I am hoping for new female champ, who is CURVY (a little bit chubby). She can be a beauty (everybody loves beauty) but just please.. no more waist who looks like a stick, Barbie's legs and lips who are never closed. Jungler Female <3
(sorry for bad English)
I had said in another post that i dont play Miss Fort for example because what she looks like but because she is a good champ and fun to play. What i can say to you is boys are boys and if they are 14-17 then yeah they are going to say stuff like that but dont let it get to you. No cartoons do not compare to a real girl :P . If you havent tryed male champs in a while try playing them for the gameplay and not so much how they look.
Deletehere, here. I'm a guy and I pretty much only play Queen Ashe (because it's the least revealing), Orianna, Lux, Diana... people who aren't tarted up like League of Legends had its own red light district.
DeleteListen i don' t care what a women thinks they should be making us all sandwiches .just make gragas sister and women will stop complaing .
ReplyDeletePretty please, surrenderat20, make an IQ test that has to be passed before posting a comment. I can't believe the shiz some of these derps post.
ReplyDeleteVideo games, no matter how surreal, make an imprint on your sub conscience and if they feed you this long abandoned and forgotten medieval value system, you will eventually become a moron. I see some of you already have.
The game has free content that you can unlock by playing every once in a while and gaining IP. If the majority of female champs\skins have an evolved sexual theme, it means one thing,regardless of the domain : Sex sells. That means that people will buy that with real cash, which also helps the game evolve.
ReplyDeleteThe guys at Riot leave the community so many champion types from which to choose, yet things like this always come up.
Who wants to see more normal\manly\real girls as designs? Look at the new games (Terra, Guilds Wars 2, etc) they also contain sexy characters\revealing armors,etc.It's a game, you don't have to marry the female champs you play.
Well said, very well said.
DeleteObviously the concept of the male gaze eludes you both. Female characters are designed to be attractive to a certain audience and that's dudes. That's the reason why even Cassiopeia can't just be snake lady, she has to be Sexy Snake Lady. Male characters or characters that are coded as male are allowed to strong and monstrous. Females have to sexy, seductive, and then dangerous (see: Evelynn, Cass, Miss Fortune). No, we don't have to marry our fictional characters (as dashing as Draven is....), but we can demand for them to bring some variety in body types and appearances for the ones they do create. Is that too much to ask? No, it's not. It's entirely reasonable.
DeleteThere's obviously a demographic, but Riot's denigrating their own game if they think that the hoary adage of 'sex sells' is the only motivation people have for buying skins. Most of the skins I own are for male champions (not gay) and it's because they look better/more badass/whatever.
DeleteThey've probably lost more sales on me because I refuse to play champions or skins who dress like hookers than they're likely to get from a few of the 'average player' of 13-17 years of age.
Saying Riot is oversexual and makes their skins and champs just to sell is beyond false. The men and women at Riot make the game they would want to play and make champs that apeal to not everyone but to a wide variety of players. They do not make female champs to sterotype women and they have done a good job at mixing up the designs on female champs. Yes as said by iron stylus they have sliped with some ( sej is a good example) but over all they have done a nice job but there is always room for improvement. I know a lot of people think Riot is money grubbing and just do it for the money but I know and feel that they love what they do and do their best to make the content that people want to play. Wether that be a chick in a metal bikini or an undead axe wielding monster you can play what you want and how you like.
Delete(cue the "OMG RIOT FAN BOY.....GET HIM!!!")
After reading the thread it is hard to say what should be done. It would be nice to see some diversity in skin tone, but how to go about it without insulting your fan base is very hard to do. Now some champs, like Riven and Nidalee, seem to have a darker skin tone than other champs or at least their art does, but in game it can be hard to tell. If Riot changes their in game skin tone to match their artwork than that would be easy, but people will get upset that they are physically changing their favorite champion. If they try to make a black, or at least non-white or non-asian, character they would have to do it carefully as to also not upset their fan base. It is that they cannot do it, it is that doing so could lose them a large part of their fan base if not done carefully. They are a business after all and they need to make a profit. In my opinion, Riven and Nidalee should have a darker skin tone because it fits their character. Plus I love dark skinned women.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of diversifying the female champs and making them more realistic there are some changes that should be made. Sejuani is a great example. Fantasy or not a woman that grew up in a frozen tundra should not be wearing a bikini as battle armor. She definitely needs a model change, or a skin that better suits her. At the same time most of the fan base is male and Riot is just playing to them. The guy above me is right, sex sells. Not every female champ has to be some sort of fem-fatal, but it is good business. However, Riot should be fair and make male champs who are like Ahri and Miss Fortune. The ladies do want some eye candy too.
There is also something that I think should have been touched upon, but was not. Gays and lesbians play the game just like straight people. I think it would be nice to have a champ like that, but do not make it so obvious and over the top. And for the record I do not think Taric or Ezreal are gay, though I have questioned Taric at some of his comments. Leona and Diana have had a hint about this, but it is not really developed. It could be that they are related or just friends, but it is a good opportunity to appeal to part of your fan base. And before people go saying things that are not true, I am straight and happily so.
Will any of this happen? I do not know, but Riot has always been evolving and changing as a company so who knows what the future will bring? But so change is not always a bad thing.
Also bring the lore back. Some of us really like it and it would give a greater depth to the game.
Sex sells, but look at the last however many skins they've released (that aren't bundles and/or released at launch). None of them are 'sexy.' They're pretty much all hilarious/badass. Riot would be insulting its fanbase and demeaning its own product if it assumed that sex was the only (or even a significant) reason as to why people bought/played as they did-- that its fans were simply incapable of restraining themselves and ABSOLUTELY MUST buy any skin that features prominent T&A.
DeleteSex sells, sure, but nobody plays the game for sex; they play it for fun and for competition and things like that sell way more, given the target demographic, than another scantily-clad skin.
"Btw:I'm a girl."
ReplyDeletefull disclosure: it's a post-op.
On Sivir: "I would keep her outfit minimal"
ReplyDeleteEr... Does that include proper undergarments? I'm guessing still no xD
Pantheon could be perfectly gay as the solari have spartan inspiration. And spartans fought with their battle and sex couples side by side.
ReplyDeleteEveryone keeps saying "they messed up sej, how can she wear a bikini if she is from the tundra?" Trynd is from the tundra...He is topless...
ReplyDeleteOther than Nautilus, I don't see any true Mexican champs.
ReplyDeleteWhen you see a jungle Nautilus just pass through a lane with that axe, all you see is a Mexican with a hoe heading out to work (yes the farming tool, not the slang noun for promiscuous women.)
If YOU actually took the time to write this down, there's your answer.
ReplyDeletePLEASE do not include this troll creature in with those of us who are transgender that actually play the game.
ReplyDeleteThis is something I've been bitching to Riot about since I first started playing over a year ago. Almost every single female champion with the exception of the child-proportioned ones has to have SOME sort of 'sexy' skin. Even Leona and Diana have skins that make no sense for a female warrior who's planning to get up close and fight, with Diana having one that actually has a keyhole that just screams 'INSERT SWORD HERE TO REACH HEART!!!'.
ReplyDeleteWhen Varus was released, I was hopeful that the champions were going to become more diverse. Even more so once I saw Fiora and Diana, both beautifully designed females wearing at least some armor, and more importantly, practical attire.
Then we got Syndra, and all those hopes went right out the window. Her breasts actually jiggled in the login animations. When do we get to see Beach Party Garen's banana hammock swinging in the breeze, or his muscular buttocks flexing as he runs to catch a Demacian frizbee?
Never. We can have borderline nude female champions (Syndra, Evelynn, Sejuani, Janna, Battle Bunny Riven, Morgana, LeBlanc, Zyra, etc) but the closest thing we get for eye candy? Varus, who's still uber-buff. We couldn't get a half naked Ezreal skin, showing off a slimmer, more attractive form. No, we get a buffed up Ahnuld with some sort of weird crotch disease.