Item Preview – Dust Sweeping

Posted on at 3:01 PM by Moobeat
Edit: Added in the info about another new item, Sightstone, to the bottom of the post.
Edit 2: Added in EVEN MORE red posts.

Xypherous is back with another itemization post, this time focusing on what is being taken out in the S3 item update.
Continue reading for more information on what items are getting removed, including Meki Pendant, Rejuvenation Bead, Madred's Bloodrazor, Force of Nature, Ionic Spark, Elixer of Agility, and Heart of Gold, and what items you will be able to pick up to replace them. Additionally, you'll find several relevant red posts tacked on to the bottom of the post.

Here is his original announcement.
"Hey guys. Continuing from my initial discussion of preseason itemization changes, which you can read here, I wanted to talk about new alternatives to items that are getting removed as part of the overall rework.

As you know we have a lot of old items that exist in a weird twilight space between useful and confusing, and it’s traditionally been very hard to find a place for these items to exist and be satisfying to use in the current environment. In a lot of cases, we’ve decide to remove items that were either identified as having pretty negative consequences for the game or warped freedom of itemization around themselves. While making these items better or more satisfying to use might have been an option, if the core purpose of the item seemed flawed it was targeted for removal.

I’ll walk through some of the more sweeping changes and try to explain our thoughts behind them as well as what replacements achieve a similar functionality.


Meki Pendant & Rejuvenation Bead – Removed

These items have been removed because they were mostly superfluous item paths that constrained early game purchases and mid-game upgrades. Everything that builds out of Meki Pendant and Rejuvenation Bead has been modified to build out of Regrowth Pendant and Faerie Charm.

Alternative: Regrowth Pendant and Faerie Charm

These items will sit at a much smaller price-point but build into many more items overall, allowing players to have much greater flexibility when building items out of regeneration items.


Madred’s Bloodrazor - Removed

Madred’s Bloodrazor has traditionally been a weak pick overall. On the surface, it appears to counter high health targets. However, its odd build path and the fact that it does magical damage make the Bloodrazor awkward in many situations. It doesn’t do as much damage as other alternatives to high hit point targets, nor is the build path something lenient enough to let you quickly build it to counter high health targets. As a jungle control item it is surpassed by Wriggle’s Lantern in many ways, especially for sustains, invades and jungle vision.

Alternative: Blade of the Ruined King

This item first debuted in Twisted Treeline, and was meant to be the ‘high health counter’ for ranged attackers. Against moderate DPS / high health targets, Blade of the Ruined King attacks these characters where it hurts the most – the fact that their DPS is consistent over time. By draining a percentage of their current health on every strike, Blade of the Ruined King seeks to burn down high health targets by both outlasting and kiting them.

Blade of the Ruined King also works well for on-hit ranged attackers, providing them a form of combat sustain that is independent of the amount of damage done by their main attack. On-hit Teemo or On-hit Kog’maws have traditionally fared poorly in being able to output sustained damage in a fight because life steal was so anti-synergistic with their builds. Blade of the Ruined King not only fits the % damage profile that Madred’s Bloodrazor once occupied but also supplies life steal for these character builds.


Force of Nature - Removed

Force of Nature has been the go-to high MR item for tanks who want to counter magic damage. The item, however, is kind of confusing. Is it a movement speed option for fighters and tanks? Or is it meant to be a regeneration item in sieges? Force of Nature’s odd stat combination made it particularly difficult to make it feel like a quality purchase. One of its attributes was probably redundant or unnecessary on your character.

Alternative: Spirit Visage

Spirit Visage is getting a slight touch up for the preseason. It will now build out of Negatron Cloak instead of Null Magic Mantle, and Spirit Visage’s passive is getting a bump in power. Additionally, there are a lot more Tier 2.5 items that offer Magic Resistance, allowing you to more easily spec into Magic Resistance without wasting slot efficiency.


Ionic Spark – Removed

Ionic Spark is a bit of a confusing item right now. Ionic Spark only fully synergizes with one or two champions (Shen, Gangplank), but it’s good to have an effective wave clearing option for characters that lack an innate ability to quickly deal with waves of minions. For a proc-build, Ionic Spark is awkward because it grants a very inconsistent proc that does some damage but is inferior to Wit’s End in a lot of cases.

Alternative: Statikk Shiv, Tiamat, Wit’s End

Tiamat has been vastly upgraded as a passive wave clearing item, while Wit’s End has always been the traditionally stronger option for Attack Speed / On-hit builds.


Elixir of Agility – Removed

Right now Elixir of Agility serves a single purpose in the game – to make the winning hyper-carry exponentially more powerful than the losing one. This has some general negative effects: Due to the multiplicative factor of attack speed and critical strike, the raw DPS increase is always better for the winner than the loser in this case. It also strongly pigeonholes viable end-game carry builds to take advantage of critical strike, as it is the cheapest and most powerful form of DPS boost.

Alternative: None

We don’t want an item in the game whose sole purpose is to pigeonhole end-game carry builds and provide exponential damage increase to a single class. While there should be purchasable buffs that help close out the game, a 250 Gold item that typically only benefits a single player on the winning team seemed a bit superfluous.


Heart of Gold – Removed

Heart of Gold is a deeply conflicted item. Gold over Time items are designed to be a tradeoff of early game power versus reliable scaling further on in the game. However, Heart of Gold is a Health item, a statistic that is primarily dominant early game rather than late game. It helps create a lot to passivity, but worst of all it contributes to passive snowballing. While the intent of the item was to help out gold-starved characters that were traditionally weak, there are much better ways to solve this than an item that also makes their direct competitors stronger.

Alternative: The other Gold per 10 items

We don’t want to see an item in the game that lets you passively win your lane and close off options for your opponent. The other 3 Gold per 10 items have all been upgraded with either much more flexible build paths in terms of what they can build into or additional ways to generate real and imagined incomes. From Gold per 10 upgrades that let you keep the Gold per 10 when fully upgraded to alternate gold gain passives, the other 3 Gold per 10 items have become much more flexible in their final builds.

-Xypherous"
In the ensuing discussion, Xypherous dropped off many more tantalizing posts, including the reveal a new ward centric item.
"Just going to leave this here.. sneakily.. :3

Sightstone (650 Gold)
+125 Health
Unique Passive - Refresh (Ward) : Starts with 4 charges and refills each time you stop by your shop.
Unique Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place an invisible ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. You may have a maximum of 2 wards from this item at once.

Upgrades to...

*is dragged away by internal Riot teams*"
He then elaborated on the difference between HoG and Sightstone, an item that looks incredibly strong as a replacement.
"Here's the core difference - Sightstone doesn't net you advantage if you are passive. Having wards provides safety - but Heart of Gold actually nets you advantage by passive play due to your passive GP/10 will override the value of active play.

You're not going to win the lane any harder by being safe - whereas HoG causes you to win the lane harder by being hard to burst.' "

He also fielded a few questions:

[ With the elixer gone, will be have any more "full build" ( consumable ) items to buy? ]: "We're combatting this in a couple of ways - but in general, the gold value of a 'full build' is higher than before."
[ Why did you remove MBR and Ionic Spark??]: "On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.

Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse."
[ Will FoN's passive show up on another item? ]: "To speak to your concern - FoN's passive will be on another item. It's an awesome passive, it just has nothing to do with why you want MR/MS a lot of the time"

[ Ionic Spark is a cheap attack speed item, will we see anything to replace that? ] : "I spoke to this before in the first introduction post to Season 3 - but yes. Attack Speed has been undercosted for a long time now and characters that have scaled really well with Attack Speed (like Irelia) has been hit by continuous nerfs because of how cheap their itemization is.

It's also one of the reasons why Ranged Carries seem to explode late game. They're limited by Attack Damage and Critical Strike statistics to gain access to damage - but then Attack Speed is so cheap that they can then explode through item based AS, as Attack Speed is one of the statistics you get the least of through level scaling."

[ What items will tanks be building to increase their DPS? ]: "Assuming you're running into a team that's purely physical damage - Thornmail/Sunfire Cape becomes the highest source of DPS for a tank. If you're a mana based tank, there's always the possibility of getting a Sheen and upgrading it to the Tank version of Sheen."

[ What's changing with Phantom Dancer? ]: "Yeah, Phantom Dancer has had its' statistics extensively readjusted. It lost a *lot* of movement speed and a little bit of attack speed. It's also slightly cheaper and thus less slot-efficient.

It's been known for a while that Phantom Dancer was just too good but nerfing it would've caused a drastic effect on AD carry mobility / balance for a while. We've shifted some statistics around into other items that AD carries can easily fit into their builds and now PD doesn't have to be the king of both AS, Crit and MS.

On the plus side, it now has Ignore Unit Collision on it though. How useful that passive is, I'm not sure - but it is something that people have been asking for quite a while on their carries."

[ While your messing with items, can you make QSS not remove suppression? ]: "We're doing a change (or a bugfix, depending on your point of view) on both Warwick and Malzahar. Their ultimates will be treated like leashes... because they kind of are. (You can't QSS leashes. You can only break them via distance.)

What this means is that QSS will break the stunning effect on you but until you get out of range of them, it won't cancel the damage and other effects these characters will be doing. Malzahar will get his full Nether Grasp until they break the leash and Warwick typically gets 2 (maybe 3) more swipes before the target walks away."


[ What are the HP/Armor items? ]: "The items that currently service Armor/HP are:

Locket of the Glorious Parrot err.. Solari.
Aegis of the Legion
Sunfire Cape
Randuin's Omen

Locket of the Iron Solari is getting slightly better in Season 3 - while it loses a bit from the Heart of Gold removal, it has gained CDR and a lot more health than before at roughly the same cost as before.

It's also not saddled to Emblem of Valor, otherwise known as: "Why do you hate me and force me to build an irrelevant item to me - You are so hard to build because whenever I build you, it is the wrong time.""

[ Explain again why HoG is advantageous and Sightstone isn't ]: "Same problem - Health and GP/10 aren't statistics that mix well to create interesting gameplay. You incur advantage by not doing anything and you simultaneously make every course of action harder for the opponent.

Contrast, Philosopher's stone - which helps you gain advantage passively but exposes a weakness in your build - the lack of any health or Sightstone, which gives you a temporary advantage (vision) and permanent utility (more vision) but you're not getting stronger versus the opponent."


[ What is replacing HoG in the Randuin's Omen build path? ]: "A simple ruby crystal. You'll probably get the other components first."

[ I really love Madred's Bloodrazors, don't remove them they are useful/good/etc ]: "The problem with MBR is that it looks like a counter-item to tanks - but in all actuality, IE + PD is a far far better counter to tanks than MBR's % maximum health damage ever will.

Why is this true?

This is due to the fact that if you look at an end-game build for say.. Fortune, you might get to 1900 health. Why if you look at an end-game build for say.. Shen, you might see him at 50% more health.

However, the key fault here is that tank/bruisers are defined by resistances - not health. Thus a high health-shredder is actually pretty poor at doing so. While MBR will do more raw damage to Shen than Fortune, the reality of the matter is that, after magic resistance, you'd need like 80% magic penetration to make it deal more actual damage to Shen than Miss Fortune.

Secondly, think about the item's build path. A counter item that sits at 3800 gold isn't really a counter-item. Nor does it help you anywhere along the way up to that counter-item in terms of what you need or want to do.

Thirdly, let's say we buffed MBR, who does this actually benefit? Well, in all actuality, it buffs tanky fighters and lets them kill squishy targetsfaster. At its core, MBR is a fighter item - not a ranged carry item - and while it being a fighter item *might* be fine - its real sin is that it's a anti-squishy item for bruisers that pretends to be an anti-bruiser item for squishies.

So the "conditional" here is that MBR will never actually do what on-hit proc characters want it to do - be an avenue to help them versus high health men - because MBR is most effective *on* high-health men trying to kill you - which means that it's just not a good 'niche' item. It blatantly does the opposite of what it appears to be for."
[ GG, champion X is going to be useless without item Y ]: "Champion balance will be in flux after these changes and some champions might need help. We're redoing itemization to get a better system to balance champions around."


Miss out on some of Xypherous' earlier posts about the S3 updates to itemization? Check 'em out:

145 comments

  1. First Comment than read the post

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    1. 2 of 2 Riot Posts 2 Minutes Ago
      Just going to leave this here.. sneakily.. :3

      Sightstone (650 Gold)
      +125 Health
      Unique Passive - Refresh (Ward) : Starts with 4 charges and refills each time you stop by your shop.
      Unique Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place an invisible ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. You may have a maximum of 2 wards from this item at once.

      Upgrades to...

      *is dragged away by internal Riot teams*

      Delete
  2. It hits some hard like Warwick and Teemo, but it isn't that bad.

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  3. I liked HoG. :(

    But I'm looking forward to keeping the Gp10 bonus after upgrading.

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    1. Yeah, I'm really hoping they improve supports with what they're doing. I always feel bad when we destroy the other teams in games, and all I have is 3 finished items and a 4th started because I have to spend all my money on wards for my team.

      For instance, one of my recent games I was 0/3/13 as Sona. I ended up with just under 3k in items, with 2 GP10's and my only finished item being level 2 boots. I had earned 5.2k gold, and had about 1k when we destroyed their nexus. With Oracles and sight and vision wards to gain total map control, I spent almost a quarter of my earnings on consumables in a single match.

      Delete
    2. qwerty; realistically, that was the whole point of support characters, you didn't need items to be extremely effective in a teamfight and in lane. those stats are fine and and you should feel good for feeding all that gold and safety to your carry, who scales faster.

      Delete
  4. Shi.t edit .. Really, why delete heart of gold, elixir of agility? ..

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    Replies
    1. He tells you why right there ._.

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    2. Can't you read? There's a reasonable explanation for every removal in this post.

      Delete
    3. Removing op items, in order to all become weak (like the champions) and teamfights to last for 30 seconds

      Delete
  5. All of these item updates are getting interesting. Not gonna like the removal of HOG, but the new items and reworks should make up for it.

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    1. The thing is, they won't make up for it. A lot of these changes, ( like the jungle changes ) are not needed and are meant to make certain tasks more arduous. Riot does not like the idea of early ganks and jungle pressure. Ionic spark is a great item on several champs that need attack speed & health (Irelia, Shen). The removal of HoG is nothing but stupid.

      Delete
    2. Because early ganks gives a clear advantage to the select few junglers (such as lee sin) and making other junglers unviable? It gets to a stage where some junglers are almost never selected. No one actually knows all the changes Riot has in plan right now. We're only getting bits of it. Changes are always unpleasant, get used to it.

      Why do you assume that Riot won't make up for it? Riot wants more people to play the game, not less.

      Delete
  6. I dont like that they removed HoG. It was the only gp10 item that manaless champs like Riven or Shyv could use effectively in the jungle. Unless jungle gold buffs are just THAT GOOD, then these champs are gonna have a hard time there.

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    1. except shyv and riven usually build wriggles instead of gp5, especially shyv, so it's rather other junglers like skarner, alistar, maokai etc who are hit.
      and they said they are trying to remove using gp5 in jungle overall.

      Delete
    2. So what should I buy for Garen instead of HoG? philosopher stone?

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    3. why should you buy gp5 after all

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    4. Building Wriggles on Riven = DOING IT WRONG.

      Delete
    5. Wriggle's on Jungle Riven is wrong? It depends on a great number of things. Mostly whether you can effectively gank as often as possible (unlikely), how well you can clear camps, especially compared to their jungler, and if you plan on counter-jungling with that free sight ward Wriggle's gets you.

      It's all situational.

      Delete
    6. "so it's rather other junglers like skarner, alistar, maokai etc who are hit"

      Why would you even buy HoG on them as a jungle item in the first place? Get Philo Stone for the first item along with boots, then maybe you *could* get another gp5, like, yes, Heart of Gold for example... but it won't actually boost your jungle experience, rather boost your survivability and economy in early-to-mid game. HoG never was a good option to boost jungle clearing/survival time (first 10-15 minutes).

      Delete
    7. #2

      "So what should I buy for Garen instead of HoG? philosopher stone?"

      Ruby Crystal and rush Phage? I don't really think Garen has a gold problem.

      Delete
  7. I am SO BEYOND UPSET that Madred's is being removed...:( Core item on sooo many of my builds.

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    1. Seriously? Core item? I'm so sorry. Maybe one day you'll have four-digit Elo?

      Delete
    2. Thing was expensive and easily countered , was a pos.

      Delete
  8. anyone kno what Statikk Shiv is?

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    Replies
    1. nope. Dunno why they'd mention it if they don't explain it :(

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    2. It's a teaser. Much like how they didn't say what the Sightstone upgrades to. They want you to be excited, they want a little groundswell.

      Delete
  9. Taking away so many of our attack speed options...

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    1. ...you were using Spark and MBR specifically as attack speed items? What.

      They said outright they want to make on-hit builds more viable, which would require more attack speed. You really think there won't be other replacements? ...that don't suck out loud like MBR?

      Delete
    2. I do think it's rather funny that they're trying to make on-hit builds more viable when they've officially stated that they're removing two out of the only 3 items that use the Recurve bow.

      Delete
    3. They have also teased they are adding Static Shiv, which is probably gonna replace 1 of the 2 they are removing

      Delete
  10. How dare they not mention Volibear or Shyvana synergy with Ionic Spark D:< ! I wonder what this "Statikk Shiv" is going to, only time will tell : /.

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    1. IRELIA?? she should have wits, as well as shyv. Shen was probably one of the best for ionic.

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    2. what shyvana's synergy? she already have a reliable way to clear waves incredibly fast and wit's is better overall if you mean her q in dragon form

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    3. Shen doesn't have any atk spd.

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    4. Most of the team that use Shen as a top laner will build ionic sparks on Shen cause of the split push, this means while 4 of them are pushing mid, shen is pushing top very very fast with ionik spark cause of the passive, in this way they put more pressure on the other team since the enemy now have to protect 2 towers, and from there u get it, his team starts the fight 4v4 shen ulti and bam its 5v4 and gg.But again this works only in pro team or high elo 2000+

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    5. If the enemy team doesn't have a strong AP, Ionic Spark is better for Irelia. Also Shen's passive and Q scale with max health so an attack speed item that has some health is great on him, also for split pushing.

      Delete
  11. Interesting changes. Madred really needed a rework. Nothing about Warmog though...

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  12. Warwrick was the best with madreds bloodrazor... shame on that. Other than that I am really happy with the changes :)

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    Replies
    1. You're forgeting about little kog

      Delete
    2. Phantom dancer is still a better option than Madreds, and no one builds
      On-hit Kog anyways.

      Delete
  13. I will SERIOUSLY miss MBR on Shyvana. People understimate how powerful it is. It is also great on Skarner. They both synergize so well with the stats :/

    BotR is much weaker for them in slot, but at least it's still an option I guess.

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    Replies
    1. It was somewhat decent on Shyvana, but Trinity Force is still much better.

      Delete
    2. If you play Shyvana top (not that great) or are incredibly fed, then yes, Trinity would be good on Shyvana.

      Delete
  14. Graves gonna kill all da supports at lvl 6 (without heart of gold health)

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    1. i guess they think that those pitiful 125 hp from ward sack (sightstone or w/e) will protect them -_-

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    2. Honestly, I like the sight stone, half the health amount is worth it for 2 free wards every 3 minutes, it's like wriggles active, but two instead of one

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    3. they will nerf ward gain from it soon because otherwise every top and many mids would pick this item as well as supports and the whole map will be illuminated with wards

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    4. Hmm, no I don't thing so. You can take this if you're a tanky solotop, or a tanky mage, but don't forget : you have considerably slowed your build just by buying this item. It's not cheap, green wards are way cheaper.

      Delete
    5. Don't forget, control junglers like Nunu, Shyvana, Dr.Mundo, etc. will eat those free wards for gold and pay-off an oracles fairly easier...then go invade and steal stuff! Bruisers will still have "Wriggles" as it grant more beneficial stats than just only health to sustain top lanes/jungle, I highly doubt it will be an alternative to top laners/junglers. Most current AP Carry builds are vastly expensive, building "Sightstone" will slow them down as "Sightstone" will most likely build into a support item.

      To initial post, don't underestimate supports!

      Delete
  15. My biggest worry now is how Sona will be affected by the whole HoG removal. Same thing with Soraka and any of the other squishier supports. That was definitely a key early game item to help resist damage and even tank a bit for the carry. Now, I don't know if they'll be able to do that. O:

    ReplyDelete
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    1. The new ward item guarantees that you will be spending less gold on wards, most of the reason HoG was effective was becuase it also gave GP10, now you can use your spare gold for other items (another GP10 item/support item). This prolly more so hurts the people who where using HoG and where not support and just wanted sustain with a free pass to roflstomp late game from the free gold.

      Delete
    2. You can switch out HoG for sight stone and Kage's, more expensive? Yes. Effective? Yes.

      Delete
    3. If you keep the gold gain on upgraded items, then that means that Supports will overall get more gold and can start getting stronger items sooner.

      As Sona for example, I would get Aegis sooner. Maybe even the Locket if it will get buffed. Might actually be good for small skirmishes in bot lane.

      Delete
  16. No Heart of Gold...?

    What I'm gonna do with my builds ;_;

    ReplyDelete
  17. Sightstone (650 Gold)
    +125 Health
    Unique Passive - Refresh (Ward) : Starts with 4 charges and refills each time you stop by your shop.
    Unique Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place an invisible ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. You may have a maximum of 2 wards from this item at once.

    Posted by Xypherous on the announcement thread, for everyone worrying xD

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. HOG was still a strong non-support gp5 item, especially early game bruisers and tanks.

      I almost always built it on my jungle or top lane bruiser builds. Wards are good though

      Delete
    2. Welp, I meant to reply to someone else, oh well.

      Delete
  18. I wonder what's going to happen to Locket of the Iron Solari

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    Replies
    1. Nothing, it's a "recent" item compared to the rest, so it should be fine; maybe just a change in the recipe but that should be it

      Delete
  19. Hmmm nope, wicke hatchet hurts him so dam bad

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  20. supports are welcome to die more

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  21. this are major changes indeed...

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  22. Bloodrazor was useless on Mundo to start with. Mid-late mundo, 3-4k hp, 100-200mr, madreds adds 60-80 dmg per hit for the first mr, 30-50 with second, which doesnt stack with anything else... 50+ autoattacks to take him down, with AS 2.5 (max) that still takes 20 seconds of purely hitting. Sure, there are base damaged and stuff, but then, this is not even counting his ulti.

    ReplyDelete
  23. So much butt hurt over the HoG removal.

    I say good riddance. Piece of shit just made the game stale. I hated the state of league this past season where the name of the game was to just farm for half an hour with minimal ganking or skirmishes and then have a clash of titans (2-3 bruisers and an AD carry) for the entire game.

    The teams that ran gank and dive comps were doing it right imo. Keeping things moving, keeping their opponents out of lane, and picking up MUCH more gold then they could ever hope to get through farm alone.

    Even if that type of play is possible in the current meta, any item that deterrs aggressive play is a poorly designed item in my opinion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Eh, i would honestly not get it most of the time anyways besides on Shen and Mundo, and most likely they will have other options for supports.

      There is no reason to QQ

      Delete
    2. Why are you crying Michael?

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    3. Your problem is with all GP10 items, not just the HoG. In fact, the HoG was one of the better GP10 items for a gank-and-dive team comp. That extra health is a lot more effective at taking turret shots and other burst damage than extra AP, extra crit rate, and extra regens. "Burst" being the key word in that sentence. The regen is more suitable for the very gameplay you accused the HoG of causing.

      Delete
  24. Meh, there will probably be 2 new items for every 1 that was removed so nothing to worry about really.

    ReplyDelete
  25. a little extreme. but I approve.
    freak you riot.

    ReplyDelete
  26. What i think is that there should be a special place in your inventory where you can put wards (that do not take space in the 6 blocks of the inventory), cause late game, when your inventory is full of items you can not buy wards and that will help a lot. But nevermind riot prefer making new items instead of doing that.

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    Replies
    1. Do you play WoW? The special inventory just for keys?

      Delete
    2. I agree.
      Late-, and sometimes even midgame, people don't care about wards anymore at all. And since most people don't protect their Support while warding, there will either not be enough vision, or the Support will die alone.

      Delete
    3. the risk you run with that is having an entire enemy team buying wards with the extra gold and wards slots. the entire map will be lit, and the strategy involved in maneuvering the field will be undone.

      and let's say they just all jam in on oracle's too, to counter the team doing this. it ends up nullifying the entire situation, making it something that might as well have not happened in the first place.

      i also like that a support has to decide upon building a final item, or maintaining it as a ward slot. this means the game is dependent on critical decisions at the right time. which is much better than just letting someone do whatever they feel like.

      tl;dr: it's redundant and silly. not worth implementing. ward situation way better as is.

      Delete
  27. No, he definitely won't... the addition of the Wicked Hatchet, however not-powerful it may be, is a fairly cheap-costing item which has a passive that's a huge counter to Mundo (as opposed the the active of Executioner's Calling or Morello's Tome, which both have cooldowns), plus, Force of Nature is getting removed... we'll see though, maybe he won't be as underpowered in season 3 as I'm expecting.... but I sure hope not xD

    ReplyDelete
  28. The reasoning behind why it was removed is legitimate.
    In-fact, it was for exactly the same reason that you have been buying it.

    ReplyDelete
  29. The removal of Force of Nature is just dumb. Great item on many bruisers. Prevents them from exploding when approaching an AP burst caster.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They are moving the different components of the item to other items, the Magic Res will probably go somewhere else.

      Delete
    2. Finally, good riddance of another troublesome item; by the way ever heard of Hexdrinker or it's upgrade Maw of Malmortius? It has magic resist, damage, spell shield and another nifty passive which lets you deal more damage the less health you have.

      Delete
    3. lets you deal more damage the less health you have? please, thats just a ploy to get tanks to run in and be stupid thinking they could win a fight because they have less health than usual. If anything they should have a passive reward the MORE health you have. they should just call season 3 the tank nerf season. Its all an attempt to make their shitty assassins viable.

      Delete
  30. Huh, this just kinda hit me... If the Ruby Crystal gives 180 health and the Sightstone only gives 125, what will it be build out of? New, less-effective and less-expensice health item? Or are you paying extra gold to get less health?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As a support I'd buy the Sightstone, even if it gave less health than it's components. Getting the ward refill (plus obligatory sight/vision ward) each time you return to base is to good to pass up.
      Or maybe they will have a new health item as you've said. Maybe a 90 health item?

      Delete
    2. Actually, from the fact that we have the Machete I can take a good guess at basic tier items becoming more like stat sticks. So you can probably just buy the Sightstone without a recipe; it's just pure lump-sum gold.

      Delete
  31. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......

    NOW WHAT WILL I BUILD ON MY WARWICK NOW IF THEY GO ALL AD!!!!!! DON'T MAKE ME BUY MALADAY! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It was giving you less damage man... get over it.... Wit's End or the new item Blade of The Ruined King will be far more useful for ya, trust me, after the patch I bet you will love the new items more then then Madred

      Delete
    2. MBR was way to expensive I usually got that item on Warwrick at late game, beacause 3800 gold for an item (that the good thing about it was his passive and at start game enemy champions dont have much health) its way to expensive, you could get 2 not so expensive items at start like Wit's End and Phage (for the health and to upgrade for Frozen Mallet) and you can still be doing a lots of damage. I know this item pasive was good, but what i see is that riot dont want to make Champions item dependant where peopleo only buy "phantoms dancer and more attack speed", they want a more strategic game. They want something like Dota but not loosing the riot touch. If im wrong check out Dota 2 item variety and you will be amazed.

      Delete
    3. Madred's is overpriced, but still useful. IONIC SPARK, IS EVERYTHING TOP LANE WARWICK EVER NEEDS!

      Delete
  32. No more heart of gold...well that was the only useful GP10 on certain top laners so that blows ass. Guess we'll just have to see what all comes out in the next season.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sure, tops, mids, junglers aren't supposed to buy gp5 every game. the only bad thing about it it's how it will affect supports

      Delete
  33. i wonder what will happen to randuin now that HoG is gone

    ReplyDelete
  34. This is EPIC!! only thing Im wondering about is, if this update is going in the beta first, or STRAIGHT to the LIFE servers, cans someone inform me about this?

    ty <3

    ReplyDelete
  35. I'm excited to see the finished product in action. I wonder when that will be.

    ReplyDelete
  36. First I really disapproved of the removal of Heart of Gold, but seeing that they compensate it with items that let you keep the gold gain, I am feeling a pure breeze of joy.
    Support always had the trouble "Do I upgrade the item now, to maybe get the advantage? But if we start failing, then I won't have enough gold anymore..."
    No longer, NO LONGER!

    ReplyDelete
  37. just wanna ask a question.... are those items that are going to be remove will be in TTL only? or same goes for summoners rift??

    ReplyDelete
  38. Here's an idea: make mbr do 2% true damage for spells and basic attacks instead of 4% magic for just basics.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Fuck, now I have to use my MS quints on every character...... And there was no perfect counter to madreds like Force of nature, it was literally perfect with its regen and magic resist (madreds deals health % back as AP), and MS is welcomed by every champ, it really helped with the slow tanks run in and initiate the fight like a tank should. along with successful chases and escapes. Easily an amazing slot choice and balanced wonderfully. They really hate champs having good mobility I guess.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah, i hope they add some more ms items, that arent just for adc. I like having my guys have lots of movement speed.

      Delete
  40. Okay that ignore unit collision for PD is awesome, but useless on Hecarim.
    Hope TriForce isn't getting hit badly with all these item changes.
    /temptfate

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're not supposed to build PD on Hecarim anyway. Altough MS feeds on warpath, I dont think you should get that kind of item on him. You can always go the bruiser bapth with damage and durability.

      Delete
  41. i really like this sightstone item after all wards equals win right now wards may serve as some sort of benefit with this item

    ReplyDelete
  42. Um yeah I completely disagree with the removal of FON and if you want to know why reply to this

    ReplyDelete
  43. Noooo! Not 4 of my fave items... ;(

    ReplyDelete
  44. I disagree with the removal of MBR, I usually build it on Teemo for the move speed, armor and attack speed. I like it most for the combination of armor, damage and movement. I didn't care about the passive and I noticed that targets with less total health usually took more damage than the ones with tons of health. I like my Teemo tanky-dps and now it's gone.

    The others removals are lame too. I think Riot is compromising for the money, they're listening to the cry-babies that doesn't know how to counter shit. It's a pity. But I still like this game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ...But MBR gives armor, attack damage, and attack speed. It never gave any movement speed.

      Delete
    2. Goodbye teemo AD, without MBR his insane attack speed is gone...

      Delete
  45. WAIT WHAT ABOUT URGOT, is his ult better too? did they change it to make them change places after its interrupted, but only if they dont move too far out of range?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hecarim would like to have a word with "...it just has nothing to do with why you want MR/MS a lot of the time"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agreed. FoN was the MR item i would get on him.

      Delete
  47. I just feel HoG removal will kill my early leona ownage, 1st back I always got HoG b/c leona kitt is to go in there and fight, meaning she needs yo take the damges for at least a few second

    ReplyDelete
  48. Guys, lets not forget that Blade of the Ruined King will be added to SR in S3 in place of Madred's Bloodrazors. I find it to be a much more cost effective item that can deal with health stackers. Just add any sort of attack speed item, like Wit's End, and you should be good to go.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Jebus, you guys are so attached to HoG. I admit that I was using it a lot, too. But did you guys not see Sightstone? Where it provides you with health AND endless wards? Where wards are what sucks up most of a support's money? And it will upgrade into something else? Some of you really need to think before declaring blasphemy.

    And as for MBR... that item needed to go. You guys do realize it was one of the most expensive items in the game (only 270g less than a Trinity Force) and yet it is not NEARLY as useful as the cost suggests. Besides, Blade of the Ruined King will replace it, and that is, by far, a much better item for its cost and effectiveness.

    As for FoN, I personally loved the item until I realized that I never really used it because it was so awkward for the champions I might have used it on. I like the idea of spreading out its stats to other, more used items. We'll still have FoN in spirit at least.

    So my point is that we should just calm down here and wait for the rest of the changes to be noted. This is just the tip of the iceberg and I'm sure we'll see a lot more goodies that will make us happy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. well lets agree that the gold per 5 went to wards mostly for heart of gold users. one pro is that HoG didnt have an "active ward" limit. so basically lets say they both provided free wards. great. then you have double the health with heart of gold, and on top of that it builds into viable items.

      MBR was only situational and youre right it had a high cost. so VERY RARELY did i even see it in competitive play. theres no reason to remove it, they couldve just added blade of the ruined king.

      FoN. now youre claiming to love items that you never really used? fuck off.

      Delete
    2. What's to say Sightstone won't build into a viable item or items? We haven't seen it yet. And during the laning phase, two wards is usually the average of which how many are up giving sight in the lane. And you have four charges. Once the two go down, you can put them right back up. I would say six minutes of ward time is pretty reasonable before going back to base.

      MBR... no.

      And FoN? I did use it during my early days until I figured out I had better situational items to choose from. It simply never fit within my builds despite its allure.

      Also, please proceed to grow up. I'm not flipping everyone off, I'm saying everybody should take a chill pill, but then again, I don't think the League community knows how to.

      Delete
  50. Phantom Dancers. Cheaper. A little nerfed. No unit collision. Master Yi overextension all season 3.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Heart of Gold gone? Free ward items? Nerf to Oracle's?

    Crap. There goes Blitzcrank's viability. All of it.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Sightstone doesn't give G/5, which tanks and support champs need more than anyone else to offset the whole "no source of income" problem.

    ReplyDelete
  53. It'll kill pretty much every tank's ownage, early, middle, and especially late game where the gold/5 would have really started adding up.

    ReplyDelete
  54. What about Blitzcrank? He has a gold problem.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Philo stone doesn't really give the staying power bruisers need in a fight.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Ruby crystal does not give g/5.

    ReplyDelete
  57. And you can't buy a Heart of Gold to offset the cost either.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I only ever bought Randuin because it built from HoG.

    ReplyDelete
  59. You think Kage's will give tanks and supports the durability they need? I disagree.

    ReplyDelete


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