Red Post Collection: Gnar Discussion, Additional 4.13 context, Reminder on TB Role Icons, and more!

Posted on at 2:12 AM by Moobeat
After an exciting night of patches and PBE updates, this morning's red post collection features more discussion on Gnar, Pwyff discussing a few topic from the patch 4.13 notes, and a reminder on the new Role icons you can earn by playing Team Builder games after 4.13 goes live!
Continue reading for more information!



Gnar Discussion

Now that our next champion Gnar is on the PBE for testing, Gypsylord and Meddler have hopped back on the forums to chat a bit more about him and his abilities!

To kick thing off, Gypsylord replied to a forum post regarding the damage on Gnar's W ability being very high.
"So yes Gnar's W does a decent chunk of damage. I won't comment on whether or not it's OP (numbers can change) but I will throw out 2 things to think about. 
Gnar's range is very low which requires him to put himself in some degree of danger when AA'ing enemies. It starts at 400 and reaches 502 at level 18. 
The number of W procs Gnar can get is gated by the fact that every AA brings him closer to transforming at which point he loses access to his ranged AA's and his W proc."
He continued, answering questions on Gnar's scaling attack range:
"Quote:

Wait, what?
Why does his range scale up? 
Basically 500 range Gnar was too oppressive in lane while 400 range Gnar was somewhat useless in teamfights. Scaling the range allowed us to realize the play patterns we wanted throughout the course of the entire game. 
Quote:

Wait, isn't that Tristana's shtick? Is that even necessary?
Still pretty short though, so I'm not mad [yet].
While the base mechanic (gains range per lvl) is technically the same I feel they pan out very differently in feel and fantasy. To me this component of Gnar's passive reads "your range goes from bad to less bad." Tristana's passive reads "your range will eventually become THE BEST IN THE GAME!""
Side by side of Mini and Mega Gnar from the PBE!
Gypsylord also shared a run down of how Gnar's transformation works to help clear the air:
"Here's the nitty-gritty on Gnar's transform. I'm avoiding listing numbers as they are subject to change. 
-Gnar gains X rage every second while he is in combat. In combat is defined as dealing or taking damage. 
-Gnar gains X rage whenever he AA's a unit or hits them with a boomerang. Minions and monsters give 25% rage. 
-The amount of rage generated (X) starts low and increases with level, maxing at level 11. 
-Gnar's rage will fall off slowly if he spends a very long time out of combat (much longer than Trynd or Renekton). 
-When Gnar reaches 100 rage his next spell will be cast as Mega Gnar and cause him to transform. If he casts no spells he will transform after 4 seconds. 
-Mega Gnar lasts for 15 seconds. 
-After transforming back to mini form Gnar will become tired and be unable to gain rage for Y seconds."

he continued:
At 100 rage he can transform using his next spell. If he doesn't cast a spell for 4 seconds he'll transform anyway. 
Gnar is tuned so that it isn't about "if" he'll transform but "when."

When asked how Gnar's transformation works and if it heals him when he transforms, Meddler explained:
"Gnar keeps the same health % when he shifts from big form to small form so that his passive doesn't give him too much free healing over time."
and when asked how Gnar's abilities work when he uses one to transform, he noted:
"Quote:

I have a question. 
If Gnar uses an ability to switch forms is it the Ranged ability that he does or does it switch to the Melee one?
Melee. Though if he uses his E it's a combination of the two versions (bounces as mini Gnar, AOE landing as big Gnar)."

Meddler also commented on what happens if Gnar tries to Hop on to a target who is currently under the effects of Zhonya's Hourglass:
"Gnar does need a targetable unit to bounce, so if you go untargetable as he's about to land and there are no other units around he will indeed hit the ground and stop. It is possible to bounce over walls, you'll need to line up a jump onto a unit pretty near the wall in question though and won't be able to get through the thicker walls, since as with the initial leap the bounce range isn't enormous."
When asked about how Gnar might perform as a jungler, Meddler noted:
"It's possible, pretty challenging though because of the way his rage generation/form swap works, so getting access to the tools you want for specific camps/ganks is tough. Having said that while our best guess is that Gnar will be most effective in solo lanes could certainly believe there are some jungle options out there. Really interested to see what people discover."

Patch 4.13 Discussion

With Patch 4.13 headed to live tonight, Pwyff jumped on reddit to discuss a few of the recent changes

In response to questions about the changes to Deathfire Grasp ( cooldown increases to 90 seconds from 60 seconds ), Pwyff commented
"Quote:
Yes, Riot, because siege mages like Xerath/Orianna/Ziggs/TF who clear waves for days are so much more interactive.
I hear this now and then - I get that choosing a wave-clearing mage means you may not be taking an assassin mage, but that's more correlation than causation. The DFG change was specifically focused on assassins, their playstyle, and creating more healthier patterns. It's a weird conclusion to draw that we're doing it because we love wave-clearing mages.
As a side note, There's a comment below about nerfing an underused item - when assassins become strong then DFG often becomes strong as well. When DFG becomes strong, then it comes down to the only assassins who benefit are the ones who can use DFG to its maximum effect.

Touching up on DFG allows us to see what sort of breadth of assassin play there is for AP dudes out there rather than pidgeon-holing us into the idea that all AP assassins must blow up their target with 1 second.

[edit] Some responses from below for visibility. Someone mentioned that I misconstrued the argument - that waveclearing was equally non interactive and we should have hit both:

Ah yes - on that note I agree but I would also argue that there are ancillary changes that tackle this. A wave-clearing stall mage has the general weakness of "IF I'M CAUGHT I'M DEAD," so assassins being buffed (exhaust / heal / banshee's veil / chalice) has an impact on them as well. This is a very delicate balance to strike and trying to maintain multiple forms of strategic diversity is tough. We're already seeing some assassins in competitive play against heavy waveclearing teams and it's easy to overshoot.

He continued, replying to someone commenting that he thought the purpose of an assassin is to blow someone up within 1 second
"Imagine if it wasn't! I get that assassination tends to be a very blunt definition, but imagine if there are assassins like LeBlanc who are super high-risk high-reward versus assassins like Fizz who are far better at repeated engagements and skirmishing. 
It's oddly nuanced, but when you add DFG to the mix it's like "WELL THERE'S AN ITEM THAT GUARANTEED MAKES ME FASTER AT KILLING THINGS" so you buy it and it skews things. It's hard to conceptualize around those kind of patterns when there's an item that pushes so hard at emphasizing speed. 
Not to mention it's fairly low skill at that (no offence), as it's like "push an extra button and kill faster." APM aside, it's tough to justify placing so much emphasis on that kind of capability."
He continued:
"Quote
As opposed to the skill required from building a deathcap and just getting passive AP that requires literally no interaction?
Because then the focus can be made on the champion interactions themselves. I don't think adding an additional input onto a champion's skill rotation is really a great argument. Take that single input away and maybe we can balance around that."
Pwyff also stressed that this patch was a buff to assassin's outside of the DFG changes:
"So to be clear: we buffed assassins this patch. Exhaust's damage reduction went down, Heal went down, Banshee's Veil (which was broadly aimed at siege breaking but impacts assassins) got a timing reduction, Chalice lost 5 mr (okay not much but still). These are buffs. 
I'm not saying that DFG pidgeonholes champions into building the item but a lot of the time if assassins are strong then the competitive meta can get focused on who manipulates DFG the best. Syndra does build DFG more often than the others on your situational picks, and Annie / Veigar are unpicked for other reasons. LeBlanc / Ahri / Syndra (sometimes TF and lategame Fizz) do build it and those are the AP assassins we'd probably see come up if they do get strong. Even Lissandra there's a very real danger when she gets played that she instead goes for a DFG and blows fools up (as someone put it). 
I'm not saying it's as black and white as pidgeonholing but I am saying that the danger of burst mages rushing DFG is a pretty unhealthy world. We'd instead prefer to have that power on the mage themselves."

Pwyff also commented on the Thresh flay fixes mentioned a few days ago and offered additional context on the set of changes he received in patch 4.13:
"CertainlyT thinks he has a fix for that Flay bug in 4.14, sorry it didn't make it in this one. 
As for your response, I agree that it's not the best context and I probably should have done better. The argument is circular, but Thresh being a reliable, top tier support is partially due to his popularity but also because he's just so damn strong across the board. He's got insane teamfight presence but he also happens to be one of the best support skirmishers around. He's just so well-rounded that it's tough to really reduce power without hurting his identity. 
As for Thresh's position in the LCS / OGN / competitive play, he's in the top 3 supports of pick/ban. Consistently he has passed 75%+ across the board and while popularity is never a core statistic we use purely, it indicates a degree of reliability and a disregard for strategic use that we can't ignore. If Thresh can just be picked whenever and wherever (hello Lucian) that's not the best."
Gypsylord also commented on the minor change of allowing Jinx's passive to proc off of killing inhibitors:
"Have wanted to do inhib excitement for a long time but there was a nasty bug getting in the way. CertainlyT + some help from our awesome engineers = epic win :D"

[Reminder]Team Builder Role Icons in 4.13

For those who may have skipped over it in the 4.13 patch notes, here's a reminder that there are now six new summoner icons you can earn by playing 5 games as a certain told team builder!
"Players can now unlock new role-themed summoner icons by playing 5 games in Team Builder as a specific role"

Here's another look at the new icons, one for each of LoL's roles:


Riot Blackrook also commented on the icons over on twitter, saying:
"Can confirm. More detailed info about the new Team Builder upgrades to arrive soon."
As for if you will be able to get multiple icons, he noted:
"I'll do you one better, you can get ALL SIX."

As for OCE Summoners getting these icons, Riot Sephyre mentioned there will be an alternative way announced soon as they do not have access to Team Builder:
"Hey dudes, 
There will be an alternate way for OCE players to get the icons because missing out would suck. 
More information about this will come when the patch is actually out here.

Sorry I can't provide more than a 'details coming soon' type post :("

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