Tonight's red post collection includes Meddler's quick gameplay thoughts for May 12th and Rek'sai discussion, a new Q&A looking at frequently asked questions on Vastayan, a new Summoner Showcase, the second wave of Mechs vs Minons available in the merch store, and more!
- Champion & Skin Sale 5/12 - 5/15
- MSI 2017: Group Stage [May 10th - May 14th]
- Red Post Collection: Ask Riot on Sexy Male Champs, Reav3 on Champion/Update release cadence, MSI Capsules, and more!
- 5/11 PBE Update: Your Shop on LCU, Evelynn files, & more!
Table of Contents
Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 12
"Hey all,
Some stuff below. Also, if there are things you'd like to hear more about besides the usual balance adjustments, patch follow up and whatever's on my mind do let me know either here or on Twitter!
Usual Disclaimers
These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped.
If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler
Rek'Sai Changes
We'll hopefully have the Rek'Sai changes in patch 7.11. It's possible those move to 7.12 instead, depending on how work on her ult animations/sound goes, 7.11 is currently looking pretty likely though. Our goals are to give Rek'Sai a more engaging ult, reduce difficulties balancing organized play and regular play and better support a fighter, rather than tank, playstyle. Core changes include:
- Higher bonus AD ratios and lower bases (Q at 15-35 + 0.4 bonus AD from 15-55 + 0.2, E damage at 50-90 + 0.7 bonus AD from 80-120% AD)
- W now knocks up a single target for 1s, and slightly knocks other units back from Rek'Sai, rather than being a 0.5-1.0s knockup based off distance from Rek'Sai
- Tunnel CD after use drops much more with rank (10-2s, from 10-6s)
- Fury generates much faster (25 per attack/ability), converts to health faster (3s instead of 5), restores less health (20-190, rather than 25-450). More in/out pattern as a fighter, using lower tunnel CDs in part.
- A new ult. Short version is Rek'Sai marks targets as Prey when she damages them by any means. She can dash to marked Prey up to 1500 units away, dealing 100-400 (+1.4 Bonus AD) + 20-30% missing health. Short channel (1.1s)
Exact numbers are still going through tuning of course, and there are some other small changes I've omitted.
7.12 Support Item work
We're targeting some work on support items in 7.12 (7.11 possible, though fairly unlikely). Goal there's to open up more options for characters building items to help their team, rather than being pretty locked on to Locket and Redemption. We like the design on both of those two items, they're pretty fun, have some skill expression, pretty satisfying etc. They've got too much of a strangehold on many builds though. Still figuring out details, likely changes include things like Locket's shield having a lower base but scaling with caster's Armor/MR (so goes well with other defensive purchases and abilities), Redemption having a lower base but scaling better than usual with healing/shielding boosts, build path changes to Knight's Vow, Zeke's, Righteous Glory etc.
Elemental Dragon Ideas
Thanks for the new elemental dragon ideas in the previous thread! Some of them were similar to ideas we've kicked around ourselves previously, some were new and well worth thinking about. It'll be quite a while until we playtest anything (maybe next year even), but it's always good to have some concepts to think about until then.
Reading through those suggestions a vision drake cropped up as an idea more than I'd expected. There's a lot of ways a vision drake could be done poorly (unsatisfying, low, or hard to appreciate power). Things like more wards or more frequent trinket uses are likely to fall into that category. If going a bit more inventive though there might be something with some pretty gameplay to it that could work though (e.g. circling dragons who provide windowed vision for you team and can be interacted with by the enemy? Could make them spawn with your minion waves etc). Will have to put more thought into that.
We'll also likely take a look at the drake encounters themselves at some point, whether with testing on new drakes or possibly beforehand. At the least a pass on whether the difficulty taking each drake's in the correct spot (gut reaction: close, but might benefit from some tuning). Possibly some quick work to make the fights a bit more distinct too, though we don't want to over complicate them (they're there to reward map control and encourage PVP interaction, not to be a difficult PVE encounter you only take if the enemy can't contest meaningfully)."
When asked about tank items and adding more CDR, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
All I want is for Knight's Vow to have some CDR, then I'm happy. Support tanks needs some more options for supportive tank items with CDR.We're thinking the same thing so far at least (about to test a Kindlegem as component)."
On the Ancient Coin and the use of the skill point you receive, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Meddler, can you tell us why the elixir point from coin's quest won't let you get a skill for the next level? AS in, why I can't at level 8 get my rank 5 skill point I'd normally get at level 9?
It's kind of unsatisfying the way it is currently, when I thought I'd be getting rank 2 ult earlier or rank 5 base skill, etc.As of 7.10 (next patch) the extra skill point from Coin will allow you to put points into an ability one level earlier than you otherwise could (e.g. rank 2 ult at 10, or rank 5 basic spell at 8)."
Meddler continued:
"Quote:
Is Riot attached to the idea of an elixir worth just a skill point? Would it work to give the champion XP up to the next level?
Or has that already been considered and scrapped because of the additional effect of per-level stats going up?We tried a level's worth of XP, moved away out of concerns about both power and power versus satisfaction. Enough XP to next level would on average be a lot less power, but comes with some real feel bad if you're close to level up but can't optimize around that (and you should almost always be doing the correct thing for your team/growth in general, not just trying to optimize the Coin quest rewards)."
When asked about artillery mages, Meddler responded:
"Quote:
Hey there! Off-topic question - can we expect new artillery mage (like Ziggs, Lux, Xerath, Vel'koz) in near future? These are my mains and I really like their playstyle. Thanks in advance for answer
Dragon idea - after killing one, team gets some cooldown reduction.New champ concepts/kits are something we avoid talking about ahead of time since we think that's somewhere where some surprise is nice. I'll have to avoid that part of the question as a result, my apologies.
Speaking about artillery mages generally though I don't think it's a category that will ever be particularly large. There are a pretty specific set of tools artillery need, or shouldn't have, and we already see a bit more overlap between artillery champs than would be ideal. Definitely possible to make more, don't get me wrong, but would expect it to remain one of the rarest sub classes."
On Thornmail, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Meddler about thornmail possible changes (if it still matters):
1. a passive that reduces life stealed from you by 50% (not grevous wound)
2.make its damage be true damage (will prob need some small nerf to its dmg, but adc's don't have high base mr anyway), as there are many cases where they built mr against your AP dealers or you are an magic dealer yourself and makes the buy weaker by default.
Also saw an idea of a drake on surr@20 for a drake that increases mr/armor %, you probably already tried this (as its pretty simple), but just want to make sure as I like the idea.Thornmail with a reduced healing effect is something we're going to be looking at a bit now that mid season's out of the way, seems like a reasonable niche for an item in response to lifesteal users sometimes getting really effective. Would likely need to be paired with some adjustments to the damage return though.
Armor/MR drakes are popular suggestions, they do run into overlap with Infernal drake (direct PVP combat power) and challenges with not being useful to much of the team at all or creating excessively tanky team comps where even targets who should be squishy by themselves get too resilient."
On a minion wave modifying dragon, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Would it be possible to add a dragon that turned an entire wave of minions into a single drake? It'd give gold to the nearby teammates of whoever killed it. Taking multiple of that type of dragon makes the drakes stronger and if you get 3 dragons, the drakes turn into ranged damage dealers.Minion wave modifying's got potential yeah. I suspect something like replacing some cannon minions with drakes would be the way to go, avoid too large an impact on single target versus AOE abilities."
On the topic of new drakes, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
will we see the new drake in Pre-season 8 or mid-season 8?Best guess is sometime next year. Bear in mind though that's very much a guess, not a piece of scheduled work. We want to do one at some point, and I suspect that's where it'll make sense in the schedule."
"Quote:
Now mid season is over, what are your thoughts on udyr?Needs some follow up work soon for sure. Could see a larger rework someday, wouldn't prioritize too heavily over other champs though (think we can get him close ish to decent with balance changes)."
As an udyr main, myself and many others feel this didn't help much at all for his current situation outside of a small sustain boost to turtle.
Its incredibly difficult to have changes focussed on sustained damage when you have limited mobility to actually hit that sustained damage in the first place.
Honestly it just feels like the balancing team were afraid to buff him in any significant means because of the potential of his bear stance. If that is the case wouldnt he be full rework material?
When asked about role stealing in champ select, Meddler responded:
"Quote:
Hi Meddler,
There is player frustration due to players trolling us or threatening to roll steal to force us to queue dodge when they don't want to do it themselves. If they force a dodge then nobody can report them, and it feels as if they get away with it while we suffer the consequences.
Is this on Riot's radar?
And what are your personal thoughts about it?
Thank you for your time and for doing these gameplay thoughts so frequently!
Better monitoring and tools around champion select trolling's on the team that deals with that's radar, I know that much. Details beyond that are outside of the area I work in though.
I'd agree personally it can be a really frustrating experience, especially given you don't have any way of knowing as a player what does or doesn't happen to people trolling like that further down the line."
"Quote:
So for rakan and xayah, is riot waiting for when they are available to play in pro games for further potential balancing of them?
Have there been any thoughts on making zekes active more persistent like knights vow instead of a charge like ludens.
What are the thoughts of how this roster update compares to the others, for the sake of learning about how the next one will be handled. More specifically did doing no mini updates like what was done in the mage/assassin one end up with more desirable results. I am going to have to assume the next one is the divers, hase riot been able to decide the more specific issues that are aimed to be tackled?For Xayah and Rakan: We're eager to see where they land in competitive play. We've heard murmurings that both of them have potential there. That said, we're growing more confident in where they sit and in particular will be paying super close attention to Rakan to devise whether he could use something for 7.11.
Zeke's: There have definitely been explorations in that direction. In general, we don't want it to overlap too much with Knight's Vow and the charge system allows us to load a lot more power into the item for brief windows. That said, a more consistent and understandable triggering system is in the early stages of iteration and looks promising in my opinion.
Afraid I don't have enough insight into our thoughts on the last or upcoming roster update to field your final questions. :("
On Rek'Sai's ult, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
Got a general idea how long Rek'sai's Ult mark might last?
Also, for the support items, could we consider making other items flashier (more obvious benefits) rather than nerfing down the ones that are fun because the benefits are apparent? Think of them just like champions; even if Redemption and Locket weren't that great, people want them because their power is very visible, unlike a Censer or Frozen Heart. I'm looking for something like putting more of Censer's power in the first attack the buffed ally uses and giving that attack some extra flair, adding a lightning effect to high damage dealt with Zeke's bonus activated, and 120 seconds is still too long for Mikael's.5s mark.
We'll need to do both some bringing up of weaker/unsatisfying items and some bringing down probably of Locket/Redemption. They're satisfying, with visible power and skillful uses, which is great. They're also just too strong though. Buffing weaker performers definitely feels better, if that's the only approach you take though whenever you make something stronger than other options you've then set a new bar everything else has to be brought up to."Meddler continued:
"Quote:He went on:
So, this new Rek'Sai ult is like a shorter version of the Nocturne ult now, but she has to "mark" the target with damage first (with her borrowed q for example)? Is that correct or did I misread something?That's pretty accurate. Nocturne ult's certainly the more flexible/reliable one given the lack of condition on it, Rek'Sai's got more on the rest of her kit though.
If yes then I want to see both of them in a game when she got the RW. Could be interesting :^) .
In terms of her burrowed Q (Prey Seeker) it also helps that feel like a more meaningful part of the kit."
"Quote:Meddler added:
One more question, and its an important one!I believe that's the plan, will double check though.
Now that her ult isnt a TP kinda ult anymore, where will you move her jetski animation that was in her ult? It would be great if it was in her homeguard animation!
Edit: Yep, that's the plan."
"Quote:On the cooldown, Meddler commented:
Will Rek'Sai ultimate still grant her bonus attack speed?No."
"Quote:On it's name, Meddler responded:
It's probably on a high cooldown.Yep (90-60s at present)."
"Quote:
I love the new Rek'Sai ult idea! Can you give us any idea what it's called, if it has a new name at all?Still called Void Rush at present."
When asked about how the designer felt about the proposed changes, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Question on Rek'Sai, how does BeatPunchBeef feel about these changesHe contributed a lot to the early exploration of these changes before swapping to focus mainly on Rakan."
On Tremor Sense, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
I really like the idea of the new ult for rek'sai... she should feel like an inescapable animal like in her teaser trailer so this change does capture this so much better....good job on that.No current changes for Tremor Sense. We shared the feeling initially that it made balance for pro versus regular play tough, but the more we looked into it the more we concluded global mobility from her ult was also a significant issue, a much less unique/engaging power much of the time, and a chance to give her a better high moment in combat off her ult."
Also quick question... what's happening with tremor sense... you haven't mentioned it here but I feel like that was the main thing which made her so different in pro play to solo Q so if the goal is to make her easier to balance in pro play I'm guessing tremor sense has to have at least small changes coming.
Over on reddit, Meddler also answered a question regarding the scope of this mini update:
"Quote:
Are we already reworking Rek'Sai? what about Urgot?Rek'Sai's getting one ability replaced and some others adjusted.
Urgot's getting a new kit, model, VO, spell effects etc. Everything rebuilt. That takes longer and is handled by a different team as a result.
Riot Sotere also answered a few questions on Rek'Sai:
"Quote:Riot Sotere continued:
Will Rek'sai's recommended item build be updated too once the update is released (e.g. cinderhulk to warrior)?Yup, we'll definitely give her a new set of rec. items. :)"
"Quote:
About Rek'Sai, what about marking the champion that destroys ehr borrows? She will depend a lot on them for mobility and presence now, and it also gives a mean to punish said champions. Also, without the ability to proc it from distance outside of borrowed Q it sounds like a nerfed diana's ult with a cast time.
I might use the term improperly, but it sounds clunky to have to be borrowed, have to use Q to hit somebody and then have to cast a spell for one second. And this supposing you can use it while borrowed, otherwise it sounds much worse to use. I know it' s obviously too much early to say this, just pointing out some potential issues.Interesting idea. Right now it's pretty simplified by: deal damage to them, mark. Think there're some good reasons to remain with a consistent and very simple rule.
The hope is that she uses it to re-engage on enemy champions she's been in melee combat with, as well as ones she's blasted with Prey Seeker."He added:
"Quote:
Re-reading the Rek'Sai changes I've gotta say I'm really excited for it.She'll still be a melee champion who needs to get autoattacks off for her kill pattern. The hope is she feels a lot better going more aggressive with her item choices, but I don't expect Lethality or pure AD builds to be optimal."
Are there any concerns about players building her like an assassin? I would think that the reliability and execute on the new ultimate would serve that role fairly well.
Reav3 On Haunted Maokai Splash Progress
"Quote:When asked if more base VO updates outside of larger updates like the recent Maokai or. Lux, Reav3 replied:
almost nearing 7.10 PBE Cycle, still no sign of the polished splash.Currently it's looking like it might be delayed, not sure how long though"
are you 100% sure it will be in 7.10?
"Quote:
Hey Reav3 can I ask if you'll include who will get a VO update and splash update after MF in your next state of champ up blogWe currently don't have any VO updates in production. As for splashes if we are working on new splashes I will mention them, of course.
Vastaya Q&A
"The ways of the vastaya can be quite a mystery - even a learned gentleman like Eduard Santangelo was perplexed by the strange creatures native to Ionia. We've brought together our own esteemed Narrative scholars from the Worldbuilding and Champ teams to answer your top questions.
Haven’t yet read up on all things vastaya? Then we encourage you to peruse the coverage both on Universe and the Nexus.
What is it about Soraka, Volibear, Alistar, and Trundle that makes them different from the vastaya?
Soraka, Voli, Alistar and Trundle are all different, distinct species. Alistar is a minotaur - a race which likely evolved separate from the vastaya even if they are sometimes confused by outsiders. Trundle a troll. Soraka is something… different, probably associated with Mt. Targon. Volibear is more akin to a primal Freljordian nature spirit/force of nature.
Why did you decide to pick Zed as the enemy of Rakan and Xayah in the promo video?
Our Champion Publishing team chose Zed to show that Rakan and Xayah aren’t totally villains. Their cause leads them to operate in some morally grey areas, but they ultimately seek a noble goal. Zed corrupting vastayan wild magic with his shadow powers was a clear way to show what Xayah and Rakan stood against.
Does most or all magic on Runeterra derive from the spirit world?
There are a number of different sources for magic in Runeterra, from a realm we would call a ‘spirit world’ to Hextech and beyond. Often it depends on the area you’re talking about. For example, though the kind of magic you mention is most intense and noticeable in Ionia, it intersects with Runeterra in many ways. Then compare the magic of Shurima, Targon, etc. and you start to see a variety of types of magic.
How did Xayah and Rakan meet and fall in love with each other?
Xayah and Rakan were instantly smitten with each other. Give or take several months of chagrin and adventure. In all seriousness, read Xayah and Rakan’s bios and color texts for the full story!
Do bird vastaya like Xayah and Rakan lay eggs?
I’ll be struggling to get that image out of my head for a couple of days, but no, they don’t.
Are Nidalee and Udyr considered vastaya or is their blood too diluted?
They are not considered vastaya, but they do have some vastayan blood.
Are the vastaya not commonly known in Runeterra?
Not many regular people in Runeterra have seen them, but those who have are unlikely to have tied together all the various tribes and their sources. Perhaps the work of Eduard Santangelo might begin to change things? If folks take him seriously (he is a bit of a bragard).
Do the vastaya have any relation to the yordles?
No, they are very different entities.
What is the pact that the vastaya and Ionian people have with each other?
This will be revealed at a later date, but it is a very old treaty between specific tribes of Ionian vastaya and humans that deals with sharing magic.
How did Xayah and Rakan become who they are now?
Rakan is a battle dancer. He has been training in those skills—combining performance with warfare—his whole life. Xayah is a natural fighter who has been honed through combat.
Do the vastaya have a religion? If so, what's it like?
They are close to the spirit world. They do not have an organized religion, they pay respects to the various nature spirits and spirit animals, but have a much closer relationship than human shamans do.
Was it the destruction of the God-Willow by Ivern that caused the vastaya to lose magic and spread across Runeterra?
No. But it didn’t make them very happy.
How did you decide which champions are vastayan and which aren't?
Overall, the vastayan race was created as a concept champions could use as we move forward, both in creating new characters and to help unify certain elements of Runeterra. The exact nature of each creature in our IP was not exhaustively determined from the outset, giving teams like Worldbuilding and ChampUp room to explore.
Can vastaya of different tribes reproduce?
Absolutely. Tribes like the Sodjoko are made up of various tribes coming together. What a child would look like would depend on the parents, the nature and amount of magic the child grew up near, the customs of the tribe it grew up in, and the child’s own personality - especially its connection to the various animal spirits.
Are all shapeshifting champions vastaya?
Not all animal based champions are vastaya. Ascended champions, from Shurima, for example, are not of vastayan blood or magic. See other answers for which champions are confirmed vastaya or not.
Can we expect more vastaya in the future?
We have no immediate plans for any more vastaya, but it’s definitely not been ruled out. We have other areas of Runeterra to explore and create new champs. I’m sure we’ll make our way back to the vastaya at some point in the future.
What makes a vastaya and a magical creature different from one another?
There are many types of magical creatures. Many have no connection with the vastaya or vastayasha’rei (the proto-vastaya). There are even other creatures descended from the vastayasha’rei who are effectively unrelated to vastaya. Vastaya have a human ancestor and a vastayasha’rei ancestor. There is a logic underlying most of these creatures, but having a similar system ≠ similar species.
How many generations does it take to dilute vastayan blood?
A few generations of mingling with other creatures, for sure. I mean, look at evolution. It’s a slow process.
Does the rebellion consist of only Xayah and Rakan?
Currently it is only Xayah and Rakan, but who knows what will happen when and if Coll can rally some other Lhotlan to her side. There is a growing sentiment and displeasure with the human behavior in the Ionian vastaya however.
Why is there a rebellion? Is Zed doing something with magic that affects the vastaya and are they dying as a result?
Not dying, but magical essence sustains their continued existence. The less magic there is, the fewer resources there are to support vastayan life and tradition. Other humans tap into or twist up the same magic source that the Lhotlan vastaya need to survive. This is not necessarily a moral thing, good people do bad things for good reasons, unaware of the consequences it causes others. Zed and his people are unknowingly or uncaringly accelerating the drain of the magical energy though they are absolutely not alone in doing this. This is aggravating the growing tension between humans and some vastayan tribes in Ionia - and directly violates the agreements that were forged between species.
Wouldn't a human & vastaya coupling be considered immoral to other humans and vastaya?
It may seem immoral and unnatural to some, but not to everyone. Runeterra is a place with many cultures.
Why does Xayah sound prejudiced against yordles?
Xayah thinks people confuse yordles for Vastaya as they are all lumped together as “magical creatures.” Not really prejudiced to race, though she also doesn’t like the yordles’ association with humans, and the magic of human ideals.
If the vastaya and Ionia are connected how is it that there are vastaya in Shurima and in the ocean near Mount Targon? How does that work? Is it migration?
While most vastaya need a supply of magic to thrive - they don’t need massive amounts of it and can go extended periods without magic (think of humans’ relationship to water). Vastaya tend to settle near the “springs” where magic comes into our world or near the invisible “streams” of magic that flow from these springs and snake through the world (comparable to ley lines). They can travel beyond though, just as we humans don't all have to constantly live near fresh water rivers.
Xayah’s interaction with Nami says: “We asked you to join us” and “You’re the only one to blame”. What is the Tidecaller’s relation with Xayah & Rakan, why did she refuse to join them, and what is she being blamed for?
Nothing specific, really. It’s hinting at the general feeling Xayah and Rakan have when they have to fight ANY other vastaya. Nobody likes infighting.
Why isn't Nidalee considered part of the Vastaya?
As we've mentioned, Nidalee’s ancestry is too diluted to be considered a true vastaya. Similarly, Udyr is not a true vastaya, because though he can access the power of many animal spirits, he cannot truly change into their forms.
Why the name "vastaya"? What makes them similar? Why was there a need to create the vastaya? Where do you get ideas for new species? Is there some sort of test to check if it's going to work?
The vastaya name was originally created with several goals: it should feel exotic, Ionian, and lyrical. For more details on the rest of this question, check out the /dev “On Vastaya Evolution.”
Do the vastaya have a leader, or a hierarchy? Or an entity?
Within certain tribes they do, but not uniformly, and not across the entire species. Rakan is the best though, according to him. And maybe Xayah on days he can actually remember her plans.
;)
There's still more to be discovered in the wilds of Runeterra - but we hope for now your curiosity has been sated!"
Summoner Showcase 117
The newest episode of the Summoner Showcase is now available from the Summoner Showcase Facebook page! Here's Gomatgo with more:
"It’s a brand new episode of the Summoner Showcase! Draven Cosplay with REAL FIRE.
[Click here for full video!]
Join us on the Facebook page where you can submit content, share your favorite artists, and chat with the team:
Riot Swimbananas - Riot Recruiter by day, Summoner Showcase host by night!
gomatgo - Producer
Riot Jynx - Producer, Creator Support, and cosplay mama
Tell us what you’d like to see on a future episode!"
Mechs Vs Minions Wave 2 now in stock
The second wave of Mechs Vs. Minions, Riot's cooperative table top game released last year, is now available in the Riot Merch store.
"Mechs vs. Minions Wave 2 is now available and in stock! Please enjoy your gratuitous large scale minion annihilation with this award winning table-top board game. http://riot.com/2rak9Gi"For more information on how the tabletop game plays, Check out our post from when the first wave became available. You can also head on over to the MvM boarrds and dedicated site for more info.
Reminders
Last up, a few reminders on upcoming and ending soon promotions and sales!
- MSI 2017 in-game content is now available, including new icons, the legacy Conqueror Karma and more! Conqueror Karma, returning legacy skins, and more available through May 24th. MSI 2017 continues off with Group Stage on May 10th. MSI Capsules are also in the shop for 600 RP on broadcast days!
- As mentioned in the 7.9 notes, Dark Star: Singularity heads to the RGMQ from 5/4 through 5/15. You can earn two unique icons just by playing with friends and landing kills in the mode!
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