Here is a bit of news for all you who enjoy killing off those gold filled pinatas we call neutral creeps; Morello and Statikk have both taken to the forums to discuss some upcoming changes to the jungle!
The discussion about this all started with Morello's reply to a summoner's comments about the Jungle being too "safe" and the lack of being able to out farm an enemy jungler to gain some sort of advantage.
"Yes, we agree wholeheartedly with this problem.He continued on to comment that these changes will POSITIVELY impact single target junglers, such as Warwick, saying:Jungle changes will happen."
"Jungle changes will have a big impact on single-target junglers especially."'
"We've actually been working on changes for the jungle in anticipation for Season 3 and though I can't really give all the details here because we are still iterating, I'd like to give you guys some insights into what's going on.If you've been around a while, you may notice this sounds like the opposite of what we saw from last year's jungle changes. Here is Statikk's reponse to a Summoner commenting that this is just Riot reverting the last set of jungle changes:
There are a multitude of issues we're tackling and they are very much intertwined. The current dominant jungle strategy (GP10 Support / Tanks) is fairly stagnant and the overall current jungle playstyle in many cases severely limits potential strategy and choices in other lanes/roles as well.
One large problem is that efficient farming of the jungle has very little pay off compared to constantly applying lane pressure by camping / ganking. Overall junglers severely lack in gold unless they successfully gank and snowball the game from the get-go and/or opt for a GP10 strategy.
The approach we're currently taking is to significantly increase the rewards of jungle camps over time (junglers already have a huge impact on the early game). To go along with this though, we are buffing jungle camps back up to actually be more threatening while simultaneously offering new / improved item paths that allow players to specialize in the jungle. Overall we want junglers to be rewarded for building combat stats rather than always being forced to build gold generation items.
This is not the only thing we're changing in the jungle for next season, but these types of things are definitely on our radar."
"In some ways, yes, though not completely.He stretched that sentiment a little further with his last post, saying:
We aren't going all the way back to the extreme of the old jungle where you would just get crushed unless you were Warwick, but we do feel there is a happy medium between Season 1 and Season 2 that we can strike.
The biggest difference here though is that we will be offering itemization that will help champions who need that extra boost in the jungle. Champions who are already super strong in the jungle may opt to not build these items, but it's pretty interesting to see what new junglers may become viable with these new items."
"Well a lot of the directional changes we're making for Season 3 are to make sure there are niches for the various jungle types.
For example, the nerfing of the jungle camps' damage really left no room for "safe" junglers such as Warwick since sustain was no longer a thing. Everyone can just clear with Boots + Health Pots and apply pressure to lanes.
When we do these changes for Season 3, there may be some junglers who are simply too strong in too many categories and we'll have to address that in the context of the new jungle. Overall though, we're looking to make sure there's a reason to bring X jungler over Y jungler depending on the situation."
So. what do you guys think about what we know so far? Remember that these changes are still a ways out and seem to be tied in closely to the item overhaul, so it might be a little early to completely shoot it down or not.
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NO.
DeleteFiddlesticks must be made a more viable choice with the new jungle.
ReplyDeleteRiot pls.
I think fiddlesticks fits under the singletarget/sustained junglers that would positively benefit, similar to warwick.
DeleteYES ! Finally my first main champ getting some love.
DeleteFiddle in the middle in the middle in the fiddle
DeleteWow! Finally some people who aren't just trolling the site! I'm wondering how any new champions are going to be affected by these jungle changes. Also, WHEN IS THE NEW CHAMPION AND HE'D BETTER NOT BE A CRAZY COMPLICATED RENGAR V.3!
DeleteSounds interesting.
ReplyDeleteThey still need to buff certain junglers so they aren't as useless in the current meta.
ReplyDeleteErm. Gangplank
Deletevayne anyone?
DeleteThey should buff syndra then, she sucks as a jungler... Idk why I have 397 elo, maybe cuz I have a 3% win rate with syndra jungler.
Deleteroit pls
Is this dude serious..?
DeleteBan vayne..?
Ban gragas in jungle, his ganks are undodgable.
DeleteLOL, remember Phreak saying Lulu and Irelia Jungle is very effective in her Champion Spotlight? (I think he said that, unless I got it all wrong)
DeleteZilean jungle needs a buff, since he's weak against Kha'Zix: http://www.championselect.net/champ/KhaZix
DeleteShaco ftw
ReplyDelete4rd
ReplyDeletend5
Deleteth*
DeleteI dunno about this, this will just turn people off of jungling that much more in solo queue and normals. I already see people dying to mobs enough as it is.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't this just instantly revert to the old Mundo/Shyvana meta of picking people with ultra fast clear times to go counter jungle. Not everyone can run boots + 3 pots and jungle with it. That requires full runes and masteries and a pretty good knowledge of how to clear camps. Assassins will have no place in the jungle now because it will be impossible for them to clear fast enough, compared to a strong counter jungler.
Just my 2 cents, but I'm not really thrilled with the change. I liked the fact that you could jungle Gragas for fun, or jungle Twisted Fate, obviously they weren't ideal but it was possible, and fun. A more difficult jungle takes away the potential for quirky strategies and junglers. Unless the item overhaul really changes things, I see a lot of problems
Doesn't matter to me, I <3 Jungle forevah
Delete" Unless the item overhaul really changes things, I see a lot of problems "
Deletethat is the key phrase really, because that's what a lot of these changes seem to be going toward really, at 1st i thought it would be hitting just like adc(i say this specifically cause it's probably the one i think riot wants to hit hardest) and others as such in the lane, but seeing this, id say there trying to hit everything with one big swipe.
Every champion should NOT be able to jungle.
DeleteJust like every champion should NOT be able to be an AD carry.
Just like every champion should NOT be able to be a mage.
Just because you like having these oddball junglers doesn't make it healthy for the game.
I'm glad that Farm+Sustain junglers are going to see more light now.
Sejuani can't jungle as well Shyvana but whos labeled jungler?
Delete+1, Sejuani gets shredded to pieces without a dedicated runepage and a viable mastery. (and by those I mean level 20+ stuff)
DeleteSeason 1 jungling was intense when even strong junglers worried occasionally at the first few camps.
DeleteJungling had real credibility back then for being difficult. Now every kid and their lane partner call you useless because you didn't gank their lane every 30 seconds and no-one respects the trouble that junglers have to go through.
Idd sejuani is considered as jungler but the 1st 4 lvls in jungle u might get so low that u wont be able to gank if u dont go 1st back..
DeleteI have seen people dying to the jungle mobs maybe 2 or 3 times during the whole Season 2 (baron excluded). Mundo/Shyv meta (which is quite new as meta btw) will actually get nerfed during incoming changes.
Deleterememeber everything is the junglers fault, 2 games in a row last night, i have kills or assists that equal the total score so i took part in EVERY successful kill for my team, handed top lane first blood, then ganked again as soon as he came back, whent mid grabbed up a kill on the enemy jungler in a 1v1 and took his red while hes was dead, whent bottom fed my carry a quadra kill, downed the turret and secured dragon. what happens? top lane besides a 2 gank advantage feeds 5 kills and his opponent starts roaming the map and crushing everyone, and i get blamed for not baby sitting top lanes sorry ass for the entire remainder of a 90 minute game, the top laner goes AFK siting no jungle ganks top as the reason.
DeleteRiot really needs to release a guide/spotlight for each role in the normal meta so that everyone can learn how to play every role. I have a similar experience with jungling, and people really don't appreciate how much work the jungler has to do, and how critical it is to value the junglers time. I often get shut down as the jungler because my lanes are always calling for ganks, and I end up getting no CS for 5 minutes.
DeleteIt was time to fix that shitty and monotone "meta junglers"
ReplyDeleteso what happens after the new jungle has settled down? Wouldnt there technically be meta junglers again?
DeleteThere are currently only a few champions used competitively as junglers, and a LOT of useless ex-junglers which are not necessarily "right-click champs" (Shyvana, Mundo, Udyr, etc) so any change applied to the jungle will seem right to me.
DeleteWhy do you put Mundo and shyvana under the category of useless ex-jungler??? He's a great jungler, fits the current meta, and even sees significant play in tournaments. For example, TPA lilballz used Mundo in all 4 Final matches vs AZF... Obviously mundo's not useless. And AZF used Shyvana in the final too.
DeleteNo, he's saying those are the competetive "right-click champs" he wants there to be less of.
Deletei dont know the jungle has a large number of roles and diverse pick options.
Deleteyouve got the aoe clear jungler / counter junglers, like mundo shyvana skarner
CC junglers like moakai and nautilus
murder junglers / duelists, like darius and olaf
global junglers nocturne and shen
super ganking junglers like lee sin and shaco
its actualy quit the healthy variety, ive been jungleing since the official release back when the original 40 champions existed and this is the healthiest the jungle has ever been in those 3 years.
Then need to fix the fact that you can jungle anyone, which to me is what it sounds like which is good.
ReplyDeleteNO!!! I mean... yay? I easily jungle as Naut or Mao but please don't overbuff the jungle pinatas so I'm not insta-gibbed by a Wraith, thanks. XD
ReplyDeleteActually kinda excited.
ReplyDeleteemotions op
DeleteTo be honest, I like that fact that *anybody* can jungle at the moment.
ReplyDeleteIt will be sad to go back to a time where the majority of characters need to back in between their blue and red clear. (Without a significant leash on Blue that is).
Wow, I think I'll try Orianna Jungle tomorrow. It be funny if it actually worked.
Deletecloth 5 a staple once more? ... maybe
ReplyDeleteSeems Iike season 3 will have a lot of changes. Top lane snowballing, item reworks, new jungle, masteries,
ReplyDeleteI am really looking forward to S3 since their will probably be a significant change in the current meta.
DeleteSounds like nice changes, hopefully they won't make it so the current meta will be useless though, I enjoy jungling with Nautilus.
ReplyDeleteCouls someone explain to me why this is beneficial to singletarget junglers? Shouldn't it be bad for them since they can't clear the jungle as fast for more gold and it will be more dangerous wit the stronger mobs?
ReplyDeleteThey are introducing new jungle items.
DeleteSingletarget junglers are always (rather) slow, but they are also sustainable and capable of dueling hard mobs safely. On the other hand, the low-sustain AoE machines, which dominates the current meta, would struggle to get their farm if the camps were stronger. It`s like the difference between a jepp and a ferrari - ferrari is much faster on a plain road, but when the terrain gets harder a jeep wins.
Delete8D I shall jungle moar Akali.
ReplyDeleteWhy? You will still be able to do that, given that I jungled with Akali easily pre-season 2.
DeleteAre there also going to be some changes to TT jungle? Maybe with those new items TT jungle will be faster and a little bit more safer.
ReplyDeleteLulu, Zyra and Diana were supposed to be able to jungle, will they be anymore?
ReplyDeleteSo I was right that Phreak said that Lulu can jungle. Although, Diana can actually jungle, pretty fast to actually.
DeleteWill Riven be viable in jungle? Since I'm already having hard time clearing early jungle(to go with boots + pots I need extra good pull, which I usually can't expect).
ReplyDeleteLast comment.Yeah i want a cookie please.
ReplyDeleteI dont really like this, i like jungle zileanD:(dat slow, in two ways). But i will probably change my mind when season 3 is 2-3 months old. I hated Katarina rework too, but then i realized shes actually good.
ReplyDeleteWell, new items like hpr5 + some sracking items with basic attack will approach
ReplyDeleteI wonder how this will affect Kha'Zix jungle.
ReplyDeleteHe has a hard enough time already and I'm just starting to get good at it. Also, without jungle he has no place anywhere in the game.
I kinda wish they'd make jungle assassins like Nocturne and Xin Zhao more viable to run as flat damage dealing assassins rather than having to build them off tank dps types.
ReplyDeleteNoc and Xin should be able to hop into the middle of a team fight and nuke a carry but still have the sustain from life steal and attack damage to chunk the rest of a team (baring getting focused down by heavy cc) but as they are most assassin type champs jungle or not have to build tank dps to survive because of stupid AoE damage comps that make them completely unable to fit their intended role and i think its stupid.
You build pure assassin you get nuked before you can deal your damage. you build tanky enough to survive you lose a huge amount of your burst potential. i'm not saying they should shift the pendulum too far toward assassins being full team nukes like they used to be but maybe add a few more damage items that give nice health sustain like a Summoners Rift version of Entropy that builds from something like a BF Sword and a Giants belt and gives tick true damage or something.
What I want is for vampscepter and double golem start to come back again... As it is most people can ignore their golems as the other 2 camps come back up after a gank. The golems are also the hardest nonbuff camp to clear yet they give you the same exp. Most clears nowadays are wolves/blue/wraiths/wolves/red/ganks ignoring the golems unless about to gank the lane with them. Lets not forget about how counterjungling seems to be all about the buffs too and less about the camps. Hope that changes too ;-;
ReplyDeleteI read "Y jungler" as Yi jungler....
ReplyDeleteroit pls, I want him back
Riot, please, fire morello, FIRE MORELLO
ReplyDeleteRiots on top of balancing the majority of things over time in this game; why wouldn't the balance of the jungle right too?
ReplyDeleteTeam Dignitas' new strategy introduced during the World Championships might work effectively in this newly introduced jungle. The support and jungler can share XP should the changes done to the jungle actually buff the XP gained from jungle camps. Can't wait for new metas to come in Season 3.
ReplyDeleteeven buffing up the xp on camps and making them a bit tougher would be really good for junglers which are denied about 75% xp in a normal game but they still manage to equal top and mid's xp most of the time ... and enuff with the underappreciation if a jungler is good it DOESN'T show but u are winning the game ... if a jungler is BAD it shows and u all start bitching like there's no tomorrow so if a jungler gets behind help him get a camp or two don't flame him like retards
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